Joe Biden Interview on ABC with George Stephanopoulos

Mr. President, thank you for doing this.

Thank you for having me.

Let’s start with the debate. You and your team have said you had a bad night.

Sure did.

But your friend Nancy Pelosi actually framed the question that I think is on the minds of millions of Americans, “Was this a bad episode or this sign of a more serious condition”?

It’s a bad episode. No indication of any serious condition. I was exhausted. I didn’t listen to my instincts in terms of preparing, and a bad night.

You say you were exhausted, and I know you’ve said that before as well, and you did have a tough month, but you came home from Europe about 11 or 12 days before the debate, spent six days in Camp David, why wasn’t that enough rest time, enough recovery time?

Because I was sick. I was feeling terrible. Matter of fact, the docs with me, I asked them, they did a COVID test because we were trying to figure out what’s wrong. They did a test to see whether or not I had some infection, a virus, I didn’t. I just had a really bad cold.

And did you ever watch the debate afterwards?

I don’t think I did, no.

Well, what I want to get at is what were you experiencing as you were going through the debate? Did you know how badly it was going?

Yeah, look, the whole way, I prepared. Nobody’s fault, mind. Nobody’s fault, but mine. I prepared what I usually would do, sitting down, as I did come back from foreign leaders or the National Security Council for explicit detail. And I realized about partway through that, although I get quoted, the New York Times had me down at 10 points before the debate, nine now or whatever the hell it is, the fact of the matter is that what I looked at is that he also lied 28 times. I mean, the way the debate ran, my fault, no one else’s fault, no one else’s fault.

But it seemed like you were having trouble from the first question in, even before he spoke.

Well, I just had a bad night. You’ve had some bad interviews once in a while, I can’t remember any, but I’m sure you did.

I’ve had plenty. I guess the problem is here for a lot of Americans watching is you’ve said, going back to 2020, “Watch me,” to people who are concerned about your age. And 50 million Americans watched that debate. It seemed to confirm fears they already had.

Well, look, after that debate, I did 10 major events in a row, including until two o’clock in the morning after that debate. I did events in North Carolina, I did events in Georgia, did events like this today, large crowds, overwhelming response, no slipping. And so, I just had a bad night, I don’t know why.

And how quickly did it come to you that you were having that bad night?

Well, it came to me as having a bad night when I realized that even when I was answering a question, even though they turned his mic off, he was still shouting and I let it distract me. I’m not blaming it on that, but I realized that I just wasn’t in control.

Part of the other concern is that this seems to have fit into a pattern of decline that has been reported on recently. New York Times had a headline on July 2nd, “Biden’s lapses are said to be increasingly common and worrisome.” Here’s what they wrote, “People who have spent time with President Biden over the last few months or so said the lapses appear to have grown more frequent, more pronounced, and after Thursday’s debate, more worrisome. By many accounts, as evidenced by video footage, observation, and interviews, Mr. Biden is not the same today as he was, even when he took office 3 1/2 years ago.” Similar reporting in The Washington Post and The Wall Street Journal. Are you the same man today that you were when you took office 3 1/2 years ago?

In terms of successes, yes. I also was the guy who put together a peace plan for the Middle East that may be becoming to fruition. I was also the guy that expanded NATO. I was also the guy that grew the economy. All the individual things that were done were ideas I had or I fulfilled. I moved on.

(04:22)
And so, for example, “Well, that was true then, what’s Biden done lately?” Just today, just announced 200,000 new jobs. We’re moving in the direction that no one’s ever taken on. I know you know this from the days in the government, I took on big pharma, I beat them. No one thought I could beat them. I took on all the things we were told we couldn’t get done.

(04:48)
And part of it is what I said when I ran was I want to do three things, restore some decency to the office, restore some support for the middle class, instead of trickle-down economics built from the middle-out and the bottom-up, the way the wealthy still do, fine, everyone does better, and unite the country.

But what has all that work over the last 3 1/2 years cost you physically, mentally, emotionally?

Well, I just think it cost me a really bad night, a bad run. But George, I am optimistic about this country. I don’t think we’re a country of losers that he purports out. I don’t think America’s in tough shape. I think America’s on the cusp of breaking through and so many incredible opportunities. This next term, I’m going to make sure we have straightened out the tax system. I’m going to make sure we’re in a situation where we have healthcare for all people. Where we’re in a position where we have childcare and elder care, free up… And all these things.

(05:52)
The one thing I’m proudest of is remember when my economic plan was put forward, a lot of the mainstream economists said it’s not going to work. Well, guess what? You now have 16 Nobel Laureates, 16 of them in economics saying that Biden’s next term would be based on what he wants to do and enormous success. Trump’s plan would cause a recession with significantly increased inflation. I’ve made great progress and that’s what I plan on doing, and we can do this.

I understand that. And I’m not disputing that. What I’m asking you is about your personal situation. Do you dispute that there have been more lapses, especially in the last several months?

Can I run the 110 flat? No, but I’m still in good shape.

Are you more frail?

No,

I know you spoke-

Come keep my schedule.

I know you spoke with your doctor after the debate, what did he say?

He just looked at me. He said, “You’re exhausted.” I have medical doctors travel with me everywhere. Every president does, as you know. Medical doctors, some of the best in the world, travel with me everywhere I go. I have an ongoing assessment of what I’m doing. They don’t hesitate to tell me if they think there’s something wrong.

I know you said you have an ongoing assessment, have you had a full neurological and cognitive evaluation?

I get a full neurological test every day with me. And I’ve had a full physical. I mean, I’ve been at Walter Reed for my physicals. I mean, yes. The answer is-

I know your doctor said he consulted with a neurologist. I guess I’m asking a slightly different question. Have you had the specific cognitive tests and have you had a neurologist, a specialist, do an examination?

No, no one said I had to. They said I’m good.

Would you be willing to undergo an independent medical evaluation that included neurological and cognitive tests and release the results to the American people?

Look, I have a cognitive test every single day. Every day I have that test. Everything I do, not only am I campaigning, but I’m running the world. And it sounds like hyperbole, but we are the central nation in the world, Madeleine Albright was right. And every single day, for example, today, before I come out here, I’m on the phone with the Prime Minister of… Anyway, I shouldn’t give the detail. … but with Netanyahu. I’m on the phone with the new Prime Minister of England. I’m working on what we were doing in Europe with regard to expansion of NATO and whether it’s going to stick. I’m taking on Putin. I mean, every day there’s no day I go through they’re not those decisions I have to make every single day.

And you have been doing that and the American people have been watching, yet their concerns about your age and your health are growing, so that’s why I’m asking, to reassure them, would you be willing to have the independent medical evaluation?

Watch me between… There’s a lot of time left in this campaign, it’s over 125 days-

So the answer-

… then make your decision.

The right answer right now is, “No, you don’t want to do that right now”?

No, I’ve already done that.

You talked a lot about your successes at the beginning of this interview, and I don’t want to dispute that, I don’t want to debate that, but as you know, elections are about the future, not the past, they’re about tomorrow, not yesterday. And the question on so many people’s minds right now is can you serve effectively for the next four years?

George, I’m the guy that put NATO together, the future. No one thought I could expand it. I’m the guy that shut Putin down, no one thought it could happen. I’m the guy that put together a South Pacific Initiative with AUKUS. I’m the guy that got 50 nations, not only in Europe, outside of Europe as well, to help Ukraine. I’m the guy that got Japanese to expand their budget.

(09:57)
For example, when I decided… We used to have 40% of the computer chip, we invented the chip, that little chip from the computer chip. It’s in everything from cell phone to weapons. And so, we used to have 40%, we’re down to virtually nothing. So I get in the plane against the advice of everybody and I fly to South Korea. I convince them to invest in the United States, billions of dollars. Now we have tens of billions of dollars being invested in the United States making us back in a position where we’re going to own that industry again. We have… I mean… I guess… Anyway, I don’t want to take too much credit, I have a great staff.

But hold on. I guess my point is all that takes a toll. Do you have the mental and physical capacity to do it for another four years?

I believe so. I wouldn’t be running if I didn’t think I did. Look, I’m running again because I think I understand best what has to be done to take this nation to a completely new level. We’re on our way. We’re on our way. And look, the decision recently made by the Supreme Court on immunity, the next President of the United States, it’s not just about whether he or she knows what they’re doing, it’s not about a conglomerate of people making decisions, it’s about the character of the president. The character of the president’s going to determine whether or not this constitution is employed the right way.

Let me ask you a tougher, more personal question. Are you sure you’re being honest with yourself when you say you have the mental and physical capacity to serve another four years?

Yes, I am because George, the last thing I want to do is not be able to meet that. I think as some of senior economists and senior foreign policy specialists say, if I stop now, I go down history as a pretty successful president. No one thought I could get done what we got done.

But are you being honest with yourself as well about your ability to defeat Donald Trump right now?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

You say that, and let me challenge you.

Sure.

Because you were close, but behind going into the debate, you’re further behind now, by any measure. It’s been a two-man race for several months. Inflation has come down. In those last few months, he’s become a convicted felon, yet you’re still falling further behind.

You guys keep saying that. George, look, you know polling better than anybody, do you think polling data is accurate as it used to be?

I don’t think so, but I think when you look at all of the polling data right now, it shows that he’s certainly ahead in the popular vote, probably even more ahead in the battleground states. And one of the other key factors there is it shows that in many of the battleground states, the Democrats who are running for Senate and the house are doing better than you are.

Well, that’s not unusual in some states. I carried an awful lot of Democrats the last time I ran in 2020. Look, I remember them telling me the same thing in 2020, I can’t win. The polls show I can’t win. I remember 2020, the red wave is coming. Before the vote, I said, “That’s not going to happen. We’re going to win.” We did better in an off year than almost any incumbent president ever has done. They said in 2023, all the tough races were not going to win. I went into all those areas and all those districts and we won.

All that is true, but 2020 was a close race, and your approval rating has dropped significantly since then. I think the last poll I saw was about 36%. The number of Americans who think you’re too old to serve has doubled since 2020. Wouldn’t a clear-eyed political calculus tell you that it’s going to be much tougher to win in 2024?

Not when you are running against a pathological liar. Not when he hadn’t been challenged in a way that he’s about to be challenged. Not when people-

You’ve had months to challenge him.

Oh, I sure I had months, but I was also doing a hell of a lot of other things like wars around the world, like keeping NATO together, like working… Anyway. But look-

Do you really believe you’re not behind right now?

All the pollsters I talk to tell me it’s a toss up. It’s a toss up. And when I’m behind, there’s only one pole I’m really far behind, CBS poll and NBC… I mean, excuse me. And-

New York Times and NBC both have you about six points behind in the popular vote.

That’s exactly right. New York Times had me behind before anything having to do with this race, had me behind 10 points. 10 points they had me behind. Nothing’s changed substantially on the New York Times poll.

When you look at the reality though, Mr. President, I mean, you won the popular vote in 2020, but it was still deadly close in the Electoral College.

By seven million votes.

Yes, but you’re behind now in the popular vote.

I don’t buy that.

Is it worth the risk?

I don’t think anybody’s more qualified to be president or win this race than me.

The heart of your case against Donald Trump is that he’s only out for himself, putting his personal interest ahead of the national interest. How do you respond to critics who say that by staying in the race, you’re doing the same thing?

Oh, come on. Well, I don’t think those critics know what they’re talking about.

They’re just wrong?

They’re just wrong. Look, Trump is a pathological liar. Trump is… Have you ever seen anything Trump did that benefited somebody else, not him? You can’t answer, I know.

I’ve questioned him and his allies as persistently as any journalist has.

No, I know you have. I’m not being critical. I’m not being critical. But look, the man is a congenital liar. As I said, they pointed out, in that debate, he lied 27, 28 times or whatever number, over 20 times, talk about how good his economy was, how he brought down inflation, and how…

(16:11)
This is a guy who the only other president other than him is Hoover who lost more jobs than he created. This is the guy who told us to put bleach in our arms to deal with COVID with over a million people died. This is the guy who talks about, “I want to get rid of,” the healthcare provision we put in place. This is the guy who wants to give the power back to big pharma to be able to charge exorbitant prices for drugs. This is the guy who wants to undo every single thing I’ve done, every single thing.

I understand that and I understand that’s why you want to stay in the race, but have you convinced yourself that only you can defeat him?

I convinced myself of two things, I’m the most qualified person to beat him and I know how to get things done.

If you can be convinced that you cannot defeat Donald Trump, will you stand down?

Well, it depends on if the Lord Almighty comes out and tells me that, I might do that.

Well, I mean, on a more practical level, Washington Post just reported in the last hour that Senator Mark Warner is assembling a group of Senators together to try to convince you to stand down because they don’t think you can win.

Well, Mark is a good man. We’ve never had that. He also tried to get the nomination too. Mark’s not… Mark and I have a different perspective. I respect him.

And if Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and Nancy Pelosi come down and say, “We’re worried that if you stay in the race, we’re going to lose the House and the Senate,” how will you respond?

I’ll go into detail with them. I’ve spoken to all of them in detail, including Jim Clymer. Every one of them. They all said I should stay in the race, stay in the race. None of the people said I should leave the-

But if they do?

Well, it’s like they’re not going to do that.

You sure?

Yeah, I’m sure. Look, I mean, if the Lord Almighty came down and said, “Joe, get out of the race,” I’d get out of the race. The Lord Almighty is not coming down. I mean, these hypotheticals, George, if all-

But it’s not that hypothetical anymore. I grant that they have not requested the meeting, but it’s been reported-

I met with them. I’ve met with a lot of these people. I’ve talked with them regularly. I had an hour conversation with Hakeem. I had more time than that with Jim Clymer. I spent time, many hours, off and on, the last little bit with Chuck Schumer. It’s not like… I had all the governors, all the governors.

I agree that the Lord Almighty is not going to come down, but if you are told reliably from your allies, from your friends and supporters in the Democratic Party, in the House and the Senate, that they’re concerned you’re going to lose the House and the Senate if you stay in, what will you do?

I’m not going to answer that question. It’s not going to happen.

What’s your plan to turn the campaign around?

Saw it today. How many people could draw crowds like I do today? You find me any more enthusiastic than today?

I mean, I don’t think you want to play the crowd game. Donald Trump can draw big crowds, there’s no question about that.

He can draw a big crowd, but what does he say? Who does he have? I’m the guy supposedly in trouble. We raised $38 million within four days after this. We have over a million individual contributors, individual contributors, less than 200 bucks. I mean, I’ve not seen what you’re proposing.

You haven’t seen the fall off in the polls? You haven’t seen the reports of discontent in the Democratic Party, House Democrats, Senate Democrats?

I’ve seen it from the press.

I’ve heard from dozens of your supporters over the last few days and a variety of views, I grant you that, but the prevailing sentiment is this, they love you and they will be forever grateful to you for defeating Donald Trump in 2020. They think you’ve done a great job as president, a lot of the successes you outlined. But they are worried about you and the country and they don’t think you can win. They want you to go with grace and they will cheer you if you do. What do you say to them?

I say the vast majority are not where those folks are. I don’t doubt there’s some folks there. Have you ever seen a time when elected officials running for office aren’t a little worried? Have you ever seen that? I’ve not. Same thing happened in 2020, “Oh, Biden. I don’t know. Man, what’s he going to do? He may bring me down, he may.”

Mr. President, I’ve never seen a president with 36% approval get reelected.

Well, I don’t believe that’s my approval. That’s not what our polls show.

And if you stay in and Trump is elected and everything you’re warning about comes to pass, how will you feel in January?

I feel as long as I gave it my all and I did the good as a job as I know I can do, that’s what this is about. Look, George, think of it this way. You’ve heard me say this before. I think the United States and the world is at an inflection point where the things that happen in the next several years are going to determine what the next six, seven decades look like.

(21:34)
And who’s going to be able to hold NATO together like me? Who’s going to be able to be in a position where I’m able to keep the Pacific Basin in a position where we at least check Made in China? Who’s going to do that? Who has that reach? Who knows all these? We’re going to have… I guess a good way to judge me is you’re going to have now the NATO conference here in the United States next week, come listen, see what they say.

Mr. President, thanks for your time.

Thank you.