Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nearly 21 years ago, Hong Kong lawmakers attempted to pass a national security law that set off mass protests. More than half a million people turned out for a march on July 1st, 2003 to oppose the legislation. The mass protests forced lawmakers to table the bill, locally known as Article 23. But on Tuesday, Hong Kong approved a new national security bill that grants even more powers to authorities to crack down on any opposition to China and the Beijing-backed local government. The law targets treason, espionage, external interference, state secrets, and sedition. To help us understand this, we're joined by John Tai. He is a senior advisor at Pamir Consulting, which gives risk analysis and strategic advice focused on China. He's also an adjunct professor at the Elliott School of International Affairs at the George Washington University. Thank you for joining us. This is now the second such law since 2021. Authorities cracked down on months of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong. What does this tell us about the state of freedom and government in Hong Kong?
John Tai (01:06): Well, I think they're very clear. The state of freedom is being curtailed. The law is very much patterned after Chinese laws that you see on the mainland. The law that you refer to back in 2020 was essentially a Chinese law. But at the end of the day, China, Beijing, expects Hong Kong under the basic law of 1997 to enact a full law dealing with national security. And that's what exactly this is. And the Article 23 is referring exactly to the Article 23 of the basic law of 1997 that basically requires the Hong Kong government to do this thing after Hong Kong was transitioned to the people's Republic of China.
Speaker 1 (01:44): Help us understand how much the political scene in Hong Kong has changed since those anti-government protests five years ago and back in the early 2000s.
John Tai (01:54): Well, I think one of the things that a lot of people would say is that Hong Kong is definitely becoming more and more under Chinese influence. It really is more and more so a Chinese territory. So a lot of the things that people are accustomed to back in the days of Hong Kong in the 1990s under British rule, a lot of these things are different. So in many ways, the political landscape in a nutshell, if you say there's any change, is that Hong Kong is more and more so a Chinese territory.
Speaker 1 (02:24): And in mainland China, national security laws have often trapped both local and foreign businesses in investigations that are not transparent at all. For example, the staff from Bain & Company, an American consulting firm, they were questioned in their Shanghai office last April without any details of what investigators were looking for. So then given that and what has just passed in Hong Kong, what are the implications for businesses in Hong Kong?
John Tai (02:53): Yeah, so I think you pointed right exactly where the challenge is and what the concern is, is that this law Hong Kong is reflected with the fact that Hong Kong, in many ways, the entire overall legal environment is very much like one similar on mainland China, in which you have a very vague definition of what state secrets are. You have very expansive, their categorization of different problems or acts that may impact and endanger national security. And what does that mean for foreign businesses, of course, is that they're going to be dealing in Hong Kong. They're going to be dealing with similar situations that they're dealing with on the mainland already.
Speaker 1 (03:32): If Hong Kong and China are getting closer to being considered the same thing, what still distinguishes Hong Kong from mainland China, particularly for those people who remember it, as you say, under British rule? What distinguishes life there now?
John Tai (03:53): Well, so I want to emphasize that Beijing's idea is to turn Hong Kong more and more closer to China, more under Chinese influence. And I think one of the concerns for everyone is, is it possible to ensure that Hong Kong does not go down that route? Hong Kong right now, and you actually can see it in the way that many of Hong Kong residents have tried to leave Hong Kong. So there are many things in the overall environment that makes a lot of the Hong Kongers feel that this is not the Hong Kong that they used to live in.
Speaker 1 (04:30): John Tai, Adjunct Professor, Professor at the George Washington University. Thank you so much for joining us.