House Committee on Election Integrity

...pating at today's hearing, I don't think it's lost on any of us that were gathered today on September 11th, a day where 23 years ago our country was attacked by terrorists. Countless Americans lost their lives including first responders, and I think as we look back at that moment, I think almost everybody of age here in the room remembers where they were on 9/11 as that news came in. But it's also maybe a moment to reflect that this country has come together to address some of the biggest challenges we have ever seen, in that case terrorism, we've also done that throughout the history of this country, and so we have opportunities to come together, and take on the biggest challenges we face. Today, the committee on house administration will continue its oversight of our nation's elections. We're now 55 days away from election day. Voting's begun in some states. (00:49) Delaware's already mailed out ballots, and absentee ballots in my home state of Wisconsin will be mailed out by next week. With us today are six secretaries of state who are here to discuss their preparations for the upcoming election. The purpose of the hearing is to fully review, and explore the status of state's election preparedness. We'll cover an array of topics. We'll hear from Ohio about their recent effort to remove non-citizen voters. Florida has unique challenges with natural disasters. Each state faces unique challenges in their election administration. By ensuring states are properly equipped to administer their elections, more Americans can have confidence in how our elections run, and the results. As we approach November 5th, Americans remain concerned about election integrity. As chairman, I'm committed to working with states to ensure elections run smoothly, and without foreign interference, more confidence leads to greater participation, which is a good thing for our country. (01:45) I'm going to continue to work to strengthen election integrity. This committee has passed comprehensive election integrity legislation. This Congress, we passed the SAVE Act. We've worked to stop influence from private, and foreign funding in our elections. This week we're rolling out the House Election Observer program to ensure our elections are run smoothly, fairly, and accurately. We've invited you here to discuss the upcoming elections, and explore your preparations in your respective states. Ensuring our elections are secure is of utmost importance, and I'll continue to ensure this committee keeps to work to strengthening our elections. As mentioned above, and as you know, and as each of you know, the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act, or the SAVE Act would require proof of US citizenship to vote. I am still working for this bill to be signed into law. We took this action after seeing evidence of non-citizens on voter rolls in many states across the country. (02:42) While all 50 states allow legal non-citizens to receive driver's licenses, 20 states allow illegal immigrants to receive them also. Under the NVRA, the Motor Voter Law, voter registration forms are provided to everyone who receives a driver's license, regardless whether, or not the applicant is a citizen, and because non-citizens can receive driver's licenses in every state, they inevitably will receive voter registration forms even though they cannot vote in federal elections. As a result, we have seen states take steps to remove those non-citizens from their voter rolls. For example, over 500 non-citizens were removed from the voter rolls in Ohio, and we're thankful that Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose is here to testify on that topic today. Another issue we'll discuss today is state's preparedness for the upcoming elections. As we learned in 2020, and 2022, it's crucial for states to have contingency plans in the event of emergency on, or before election day. (03:41) Americans deserve to have confidence that their state's election officials have a plan in place that will ensure every vote is counted according to law regardless of outside factors. The committee has also provided states with resources through the Uniform State ACE Act. The Uniform State ACE Act is a toolkit providing states with 13 specific election integrity measures to increase voters confidence, and promote election integrity. The toolkit was provided to every state, and respects state autonomy, ensuring that reforms can be tailored, and are effective at the local level while still aligning with national objectives to enhance election integrity. The committee is here to assist states in ensuring elections are fair, and secure through other resources as well. One of those resources is the House Election Observer Program. I'm looking forward to discussing the program with each of our secretaries of state here today in confirming that you'll participate in provide unimpeded access to our observers to ensure free, fair, and secure elections. (04:37) A big part of keeping elections secure means keeping them free from foreign influence. As chairman of this committee, I've launched an investigation into a major fundraising platform. After concerns were brought forward about potential funding from foreign sources. I've also introduced the SHIELD Act, which prevents political fundraising platforms from accepting prepaid debit, and credit cards. It's imperative that this committee continues to work to protect American elections, and do all we can to assist states in doing the same. I believe secure, and fair elections are the backbone of our democracy. As we approach the upcoming federal election, it's imperative that we take a close look at how each Secretary of State will implement federal, and state election laws to guarantee every legal vote counts. I look forward to having an in-depth, and productive conversation with each of you today. I'll now recognize the ranking member, Mr. Morelle for five minutes for the purpose of providing his opening statement.

Good morning. Thank you Chairman Steil. Let me also begin by offering words of remembrance for both the victims of 9/11, and the first who responded, and to always thank all of America for its response in defense of New York. I was in New York City on the day of the attacks, and I knew firsthand the horror that that day brought, so I want to thank everyone for keeping all the victims, and first responders in their prayers. Thank you Mr. Chairman for calling this hearing, and thank you to all the secretaries for being here. We know you have a tremendous amount of work ahead of you to ensure upcoming election is secure, and fair. We are 55 days from election day. I don't think I probably have to tell the secretaries that, they know that very well. In 10 days ballots will be sent to military, and overseas voters, and soon states will begin mailing out their absentee mail-in ballots, and as the secretaries here know better than anyone, preparations are well underway for early, and election in-person voting. The 2024 election is here. (06:38) Undoubtedly, there are many challenges ahead. Election officials are operating in an election season that continues to be marred by a steady drumbeat of mis, and disinformation, and we have only just begun to see the danger posed by the malign use of artificial intelligence, and this is not a speculative fair. In Michigan, as Secretary Benson knows all too well, a Republican candidate for Congress used an AI-generated audio of Martin Luther King Jr. purporting to endorse him in a political campaign. I know it's shocking to even think of it, but there you go. In New Hampshire, an AI-generated audio of President Biden was used to call voters, and discourage them from participating in the presidential primary in that state, our foreign adversaries, as the chairman has mentioned, are designing influence campaigns that leverage our flawed information environment to spread falsehoods about political candidates, and parties. And just last week, the United States Department of Justice unsealed indictments against two Russian employees of the Kremlin-backed media outlet, RT, which used to stand for Russia today. (07:48) So, I don't think there's any question about where they're from for violating the Foreign Agents Registration Act, and money laundering to publish, and disseminate content favorable to the Russian government, and separately the DOJ seized more than 30 web domains that were part of a broader ongoing effort by the Russian government to interfere in, and influence the 2024 election, and American public opinion. On top of this, domestic actors continue to spread lies, and disinformation about the voting process, and the security, and integrity of our elections. And four years later continuing questioning the results of the free, and fair 2020 election, and for months we have heard the former president, and others refuse to say whether they will accept the outcome of the election, or condition their acceptance within if they are free, and fair, which undermines American's confidence that our elections are in fact fair, and secure. (08:43) Just last week, former President Trump insisted in a Fox News interview that he had every right, I'm quoting him every right to interfere in the 2020 election saying quote, "Whoever heard you get indicted for interfering with a presidential election where you have every right to do it?" Mr. president, there is no such right. It should go without saying, no one has the right to interfere with elections, and that includes the President of the United States, and I would hope that none of my colleagues on either side of the aisle here today would support those false claims. Additionally, election officials continue to face an unprecedented number of threats, and significant harassment simply for doing their jobs. One Secretary of State tracked a 600% increase in threats this year alone, and while these challenges are serious, our democracy is strong. We will overcome the effects, and the efforts of our foreign adversaries. (09:36) Americans will not succumb to the torrent of mis, and disinformation, and let me speak clearly now for every American here, our elections are secure. There is however more work for Congress to do. Election officials take on the essential but often thankless task of running elections, and face increased threats with too little, and inconsistent funding from Congress. In fiscal year 2024, Congress appropriated $55 million to states, and US territories, and election security grants, but we must do more to fully fund our elections. As ranking member, and a member of the Appropriations committee, I will continue pushing for additional, and consistent election funding election officials, their staffs, and poll board need, and deserve our support, and voters deserve truthful information about when, where, and how to register, and how to cast their ballots, and they deserve truthful information about the integrity of our elections. (10:28) So, providing support, and accurate information will show election workers that administer that we are supporting them, and today we have the opportunity here from our six secretaries about how they're preparing the is on the line this November, and each of you is critical to that success, and we have to continue fighting to protect our elections, and those that run them. I also want to just take a moment to thank my colleague, representative Mike Carey, and the chairman. I'm pleased to have worked with them to pass a bipartisan bill Monday that would codify the House's longstanding Congressional election observer program. I'm grateful to all the work we've done, and look forward to working with the chair over the next two months to continue this bipartisan, and importantly nonpartisan observer program, which house staff serve in their official capacity as neutral fact gathering election observers. So, I look forward to hearing from our witnesses. Thank you for all the work that you do, and let's make sure that every American has free, fair, and secure access to the ballots this November. So, with that, I yield back Mr. Chairman.

Without objection, all other members opening statements will be made part of the hearing record if they're submitted to the committee clerk by 5:00 P.M. today. Today we have a one witness panel featuring six secretaries of state. From the state of Florida, we have Secretary Cord Byrd. From the state of Ohio, we have Secretary Frank LaRose. From West Virginia, we have Secretary Mac Warner. From the state of New Mexico, we have Secretary Maggie Toulouse Oliver. From the state of Michigan we have Secretary Jocelyn Benson, and from the state of Arizona we have Secretary Adrian Fontes. If I did not say West Virginia properly, I'll go back, and say we have the Secretary of State of West Virginia Mac Warner, we appreciate you being with us today, and we look forward to your testimony pursuant to paragraph B of committee rule six. The witnesses will please stand, and raise their right hands. (12:26) Do you solemnly swear, or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? [inaudible 00:12:33] Let the record show that the witnesses have all answered in the affirmative. You may be seated. Let me remind the witnesses that we've read your written statements, and they'll appear in full in the hearing record under committee rule nine, you're to limit your oral presentation to a brief summary of your written statement. I'll begin by recognizing Secretary Cord Byrd for five minutes.

Good morning, Chairman Steil, ranking Member Morelle, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be with you here today. When I was last with you in May, we discussed the impact of federal law on the state's ability to conduct voter roll as maintenance. With the November general election rapidly approaching, today I'll discuss Florida's ongoing efforts in the areas of election preparation, election observation, and contingency planning. Election administration when done properly is conducted is a 24/7 365 days a year job, not only during an election year but an off election years as well. Since I testified before you two months ago, Florida's taken considerable steps to further ensure the integrity, and transparency of our elections. Clean elections begin with clean voter rolls. Florida has approximately 13.5 million active registered voters. That number changes every minute of every day. A person turns 18, a person passes away, a person moves into the state, they move out of the state. (13:43) A person becomes a US citizen, and registers to vote for the first time, a person becomes a felon, or a person has their voting rights restored. To that end, since 2022, Florida has either removed, or moved to an active status, one million voters. The ability to promptly, and accurately maintain clean voter rolls is part of the legislative reforms championed by Governor Ron DeSantis. Properly maintained voter rolls are essential to building confidence in the outcome of elections. Rulemaking allows the department to respond to issues as they arise when the legislature is not in session. For example, one new rule increases reporting requirements for voter registration agencies. Specifically any such agency that obtains information that an individual receiving government services is not a US citizen must provide that information to the Department of State to be compared against the voter roll. To ensure ballots are adjudicated uniformly the same across all 67 counties, the department has updated its polling place procedures to provide for uniform statewide operations of polling places. (14:41) The procedures also include direction to supervisors of elections to ensure that spoiled ballots at polling places cannot be counted. Finally, the department updated its statewide rule on voter intent, creating a newly formatted mandatory handbook for county canvassing boards to use when making voter intent determinations during vote-by-mail, canvassing, and recounts. Voting system uniformity is another key to Florida's success. Some states allow local election officials to procure voting systems. We believe this is the wrong approach, in Florida no voting system can be used in any election unless it has first been tested, and certified by the state. The rigorous testing we conduct gives us the ability to eliminate problems before ballots are cast. Chain of custody of voting systems is applied to hardware, and software. When voting system issues arise in other states, the department proactively contacts the vendors to determine the root of the issue, and then verify that the problem cannot impact Florida's elections. (15:33) While we make every effort to minimize human error in elections, mother nature also sometimes has a say. As it happens, the typical election season coincides with hurricane season in Florida, and other coastal states. We do not move, or delay elections. As such, it is imperative that we maintain robust emergency plans, storms, fires, floods, electrical outages, blocked roads. It all happens. Florida is prepared for all contingencies. My office works closely with Florida's 67 county supervisors of elections, and if emergencies do arise, we take necessary steps to ensure that voters can vote. For example, during the 2022 election cycle, Florida had two severe hurricanes hit different parts of the state, counties lost polling places, voters were displaced from their homes. Infrastructure was severely diminished, and the election still went on. I visited the affected counties to survey the damage we saw firsthand the destruction, and worked with supervisors of elections, and those counties to determine their needs. (16:24) Governor DeSantis then issued executive orders to provide flexibility to supervisors to establish additional voting sites, expand, vote by mail options, and amend reporting requirements. It is encouraging to see people perform their civic duty to vote despite being displaced, and impacted by devastating storms. Another thing that Florida gets right is election transparency. There are no pizza boxes, and you don't need binoculars to view our elections. Every part of the process is open to the public campaigns, and candidates. Florida election law grants access to the public to watch equipment testing the canvassing of balance, and signature verification among other things. Since 2020 candidates, and the parties are also entitled to reasonable access to review signatures on vote-by-mail ballots, observe ballot duplication, and make objections. We want, and encourage the public to watch how their ballot becomes a vote. We allow, and encourage election observation. Candidates, and the parties can designate observers at each precinct, and we deploy our own team of in-House observers across the state. (17:19) Our two newest election offices in Palm Beach, and Broward Counties are the national model for openness, and transparency. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. Florida is vigilant because we continue to strengthen, and hone our election code year after year. We do not sit idle waiting for bad things to happen in order to correct them. We cannot run the risk of becoming complacent. As I said in my previous testimony, and it bears repeating, Florida's committed to ensuring that all eligible Floridians who want to vote have the opportunity to do so. However, we are equally committed to preventing election fraud, and protecting the integrity of Florida's voter rolls. Thank you.

Thank you, Secretary Byrd. Secretary Frank LaRose. You're now recognized for five minutes.

Well, thank you so much, Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, and members of the committee, as we all have reflected since September 11th, 2001, especially those of us that had the opportunity to serve in combat as part of the global war on terrorism. One of the things we've thought about is what kind of deep hatred would lead someone to launch such a terrible attack? And what I've been able to come up with as I've thought about this over the years is that it's our way of life, our freedoms. One of those freedoms is of course, self-determination through free, and fair elections. That's what we're here to talk about today. There are a lot of groups out there that focus a lot on making elections more convenient, and that's great. There are a lot of groups out there that focus on making elections more secure. Well, as secretaries of state, we don't have the luxury of choosing one, or the other. (18:47) We know that you can make elections both convenient, and secure. We can make it easy to vote, and hard to cheat. That's what we've done in Ohio. That's one of the reasons why we're nationally recognized as a gold standard for elections administration. I look forward to talking about that today. One of the things that we have focused on quite a bit is cybersecurity. During my five years in this office, we've done things like put Albert intrusion sensors at every county Board of Elections, endpoint detection, and response systems, network segmentation protocols, regional cybersecurity liaisons so that every county Board of Elections has access to cybersecurity experts as well as vulnerability disclosure policies. So, yes, we can ask the good guys to try to hack us, and then tell us where there are holes in our fence so that we can patch those. I was the first Secretary of State in America to hire a full-time chief information security officer, and we're proud of that. (19:37) We've had five different cybersecurity directives that have made Ohio the most cyber secure elections administration in the nation. Transparency, Ohio's elections are a completely open book, there's nothing to hide. Everything at a board of elections is visible to the public. One of the ways that we have made that even better is by working with the America First Policy Institute for the development of a thing called the Data Act that we passed in Ohio for the standardization, and reporting of election data. Essentially, it lets you look at our checkbook, and see if it balances, and that's something that we're also quite proud of, and something that we think other states should follow. One of the other things that we've done is what we call registration readiness. We work to make sure that people know what we're doing as it relates to maintaining the database of our voter registration. (20:23) Ready for November is a program that we launched based on a simple idea that I bring from the military that you sweat in training so you don't bleed in battle. This is just making sure that we are prepared long before the action starts for the logistics of election day, poll worker recruiting, and training, making sure that adequate supplies are on hand, et cetera. Of course, list maintenance is one of our most important responsibilities, and in that sense, we remove deceased voters on a monthly basis. We check IDs, and yes, we remove non-citizens from the voter rolls, and thank you for mentioning that, chairman. The fact is it's rare, but we keep it rare by enforcing the law, Ohioans enacted in our state constitution recently a very clear prerogative that the people of Ohio are saying that American elections are only for American citizens. It is my duty to make sure that we carry that out. (21:10) Unfortunately, that duty is not as easy to carry out as it should be. When we have done our analysis of the voter rolls, we have found in just the last year alone, nearly 600 non-citizens registered to vote. We have removed them from the voter rolls, and yes, referred them for prosecution, because when an election law, when any law is not enforced, it's not a law, it's a suggestion. And in Ohio, that form of voter fraud constitutes a felony, and we believe it should be enforced. This problem has only been compounded by the lack of border security under the current administration, and so we know that the problem continues to grow. Access to the SAVE database is an imperfect instrument. The Department of Homeland security has allowed us access to this database, but as many of you know, they charge us for each query that we do. In order to do it, it's a lot of manual data entry that relies on us getting a thing called the Alien verification number. It's a number that's very hard to get. (22:06) We also have to notify the registrant in question if we're querying the database to search them, but we've been able to do that. You see, there are also other databases that we have requested access to that the department has not made available to us, at least two other databases that we believe could help our efforts to identify, and remove non-citizens from the voter rolls. But of course, we shouldn't have this kind of retroactive look back process that we have right now. Citizenship verification should happen on the front end, and that is why it is so crucial that this chamber finally pass the SAVE Act, and get it over to the Senate, and get it to the President's desk so that we can give Ohioans, and Americans the confidence that they deserve that only the voices of their fellow American citizens are being heard in our elections, and no one else. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you very much, Secretary LaRose. Secretary Warner, you're now recognized for five minutes.

Today, September 11th is the anniversary of one of America's worst days.

Secretary Warner, your microphone may not be on. We can hear you, but I know those listening at home may not.

Thank you. Along with many others, I served this country to protect our constitution, and did so expecting to fight foreign enemies. 23 years later, none of us expected to have to protect against our own domestic three-lettered agencies. The worst election interference in American history was done in 2020 by 51 so-called intelligence experts who conducted a psychological operation against America to cause us to believe that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation. It was a lie, and they knew it was a lie. Former CIA deputy director Mike Morell, admitted under oath that he organized the letter to help Biden, and to hurt Trump. The signers wanted to give Biden a talking point, and Biden cited that letter in its debate with Trump shortly before the 2020 election. Some signers were on CIA payroll as contractors, and a number used their CIA credentials in their signature blocks. (24:14) Today's hearing is about restoring election confidence, and the first step to solving a problem is to admit there is one. A number of yes government institutions need to publicly admit the enormity of improperly influencing a presidential election before confidence can be restored. Repeatedly, I have asked the FBI, NASS, and CISA officials to publicly acknowledge the insidious actions, but to date, they have refused. The 51 should apologize for lying for illegally conducting a PSYOP inside the United States, and indelibly tarnishing the CIA's reputation. Their security currents should be pulled, and they should never hold a position in government again. Then shame on the FBI for not timely exposing the lie, and then telling social media to suppress

... suppress the story. Mark Zuckerberg now admits that he shouldn't have listened to the FBI, but he also interfered with the election by laundering nearly 400 million Zuck Bucks through local entities and using algorithms that favored one side over the other. Until these agencies acknowledge culpability, their actions are purposeful diversions that continue to erode confidence in our elections. (25:22) Votes outside the law, that is votes that enter the system through. Methods not approved by a state legislature are what Americans should be discussing. Examples include ballots that arrive three days after polls close, that arrive via unauthorized harvesting. They're dumped in unauthorized and unsupervised drop boxes that are cured without authorization and absentee ballots without addresses, dates, or signatures. Election officials who misuse their authority and allow votes outside the law should be held accountable and removed from office. We should develop remedies to votes outside the law. First, who should be punished? The voter by not counting their vote or election officials and canvassers who allow and count the votes? (26:08) And then second, what should be the remedy? A civil, fine, or a criminal indictment? Rather than tackling these tough issues, these agencies divert attention by holding worthless briefings, out-of-date tabletop exercises, advocating voting by mail, hyping domestic terrorism and overplaying threats to election officials. National election confidence can be improved by doing what West Virginia has done. Clean voter registration lists. We have removed 400,000 names and put on 350,000 live voters. Implement voter ID, cross-reference citizenship data with DMV, require approved reasons for voting absentee, look for and pursue election fraud. West Virginia has pioneered "See Something, Text Something making every citizen with an iPhone, an extension of our investigation team. We don't vote by mail, we don't use drop boxes, and we don't accept votes outside the law and we don't harvest ballots illegally. Simply put, we obey election law. When one state doesn't obey its own laws, other states should have standing to bring suit and require only legal ballots by legal voters be counted. (27:16) What happens in one state affects all states when electors are sent to the electoral college. Meanwhile, West Virginia has called on President Biden to rescind EO14019 and I have repeatedly called for repeal of the NVRA. More common sense. Disallow election-related ephemeral messaging by social media and when their algorithms favor one candidate over another, that should trigger reporting of a contribution in kind. Don't let consent decrees override state election law, require proof of citizenship, and pass the SAVE act. Just as we have restored voter confidence in West Virginia, we can do so nationally by injecting common sense into election integrity. Thank you for letting me testify on West Virginia's successes and I stand ready for your questions.

Thank you Secretary Warner. Secretary Toulouse Oliver, you are now recognized for five minutes.

All right, can you hear me? Thank you very much Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelli ,and members of the committee. Special shout out to our former colleague... No?

Your mic may need to be pulled closer if it's on.

This is what happens when you have a vertically challenged witness, Mr. Chairman. Special shout out to Congresswoman Lee, our former colleague. It's so nice to see you again, Laurel. Thank you again for having us here today and for organizing this hearing. My name is Maggie Toulouse Oliver and I proudly serve as New Mexico's 26th Secretary of State. I'm also proud to say that the 2024 general election will be my fifth presidential election that I've either managed at the county level or overseen as the Secretary of State. And the alarming decline in public confidence about the administration and outcomes of elections in our country is of great concern to me, both as an election administrator and as a citizen of our great nation. (29:08) The administration of elections used to be a relatively quiet affair. We used to say if we're in the news, we're not doing a good job, and now election administration has a much higher profile among the American public. More people are now aware of elections and more awareness can bring more participation, understanding, and innovation. However, because of what has now been years of false election claims and ideological attempts to discredit our voting systems and processes, much of the heightened awareness of elections is now colored by conspiracies, misinformation, and frankly outright lies. This false information has led to increased threats and harassment to election workers. Many of the people at this table have personally experienced that, and political violence, frivolous and burdensome public information requests, mounting legal costs, and decreased overall confidence. This is a vicious cycle that must be mitigated for the good of our country. Providing easy access to factual information about voting and elections is a key strategy we use to increase trust about elections in my state of New Mexico. (30:16) When voters are misinformed about how voting and elections work, they lose trust in the system itself. Through a multi-year research partnership with the University of New Mexico that tracks voter attitudes and knowledge across election cycles, we found there are knowledge gaps, big surprise, about the fundamental aspects of the democratic process. (30:36) Misinformation about who votes in our elections is another key factor that diminishes overall voter confidence. The issue of non-citizen voting is a prominent example of this. Non-citizen voting does not happen in any systemic way in New Mexico or in the nation more broadly. And in fact, a Heritage Foundation study, for instance, reported only 24 instances of non-citizen voting nationwide over a 24-year period between 2003 and 2023. However, voters believe non-citizen voting does occur and this impacts their overall confidence in elections. And this knowledge gap provides election administrators such as us here today and other leaders an opportunity to better educate voters about the requirements and procedures for registering and voting and the legal penalties, importantly, for violating the law. We have a zero tolerance policy for any type of election fraud in my state and we will pursue it to the fullest extent of the law. (31:36) Connecting the public with their local election administrators is another strategy to promote trust. Over the past two election cycles, my office partnered with a coalition of nonpartisan nonprofit organizations on a statewide media campaign highlighting the work of county election officials of both political parties on a statewide media campaign to talk about the integrity of New Mexico's elections. And we found that this has been a really great way to connect our local election officials with folks across the state and put a face on the people who are running our elections. They're running on TV, radio, online in English, Spanish, and Diné, the Navajo language. All the videos were recorded to expand the reach of this effort across New Mexico's diverse communities. (32:21) I'm proud to say that this year, new Mexico's election administration was ranked number one in the nation, and we have the same exact score as our neighboring state of Michigan, by MIT's Prestigious Elections Performance Index. Some of the reason for our rankings include our transparency, things you've already heard today, our transparency around voting and elections, our wide variety of voter access tools, the extensive security measures we have in place to ensure both accuracy and fairness, post-election audits, air gap tabulators, a hundred percent paper ballots, year-round voter list maintenance, and a variety of other security measures. So let me just end by saying, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member, obviously funding for elections is really important. When we're combating nation-states, when we're trying to fight the misinformation that is coming from other places beyond the borders of this country, we need that assistance and that consistent federal funding. And with that, thank you again very much for giving me this opportunity and I look forward to answering any questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Secretary Toulouse Oliver. Secretary Benson, you are now recognized for five minutes.

Thank you Chairperson Stile, Ranking Member Morrell, and members of the committee. Really grateful for you all hosting today's meeting and today's hearing. As Michigan's chief election officer, my responsibility is to ensure our elections are accessible, safe, secure, and that the results are accurate. It is not a partisan role, and despite it being an elected position, it is not a political role. It is a role that increasingly does force many of us, however, whether we consider ourselves republicans, democrats, or independents, to endure threats, harassment, false and malicious attacks on our character and integrity. In today's hearing, you've already heard we're all going to be talking about the work we do to ensure it's easy to vote and hard to cheat in our respective states. Indeed, election security is top of mind for every professional election administrator in this country. But I want to begin my remarks emphasizing that we cannot have a secure democracy if we do not protect the security of the people who administer our elections. (34:27) And right now, we are enduring unrelenting harassment and threats. People have come to my home, they have threatened me, my staff, and many of the hundreds of clerks and local election officials in our state. As a result, we have an omnipresent feeling of anxiety and hyper vigilance that permeates our daily lives, our staff's lives, and our family's lives. These threats are a direct result of the spread of false information about the security and accuracy of our elections. So I need you to be on notice that unsubstantiated allegations and rhetoric without evidence makes our elections less secure because they erode the public's confidence in our elections and harm those charged with protecting our election systems. (35:17) The second thing I want to emphasize is that now more than ever, the federal government's role as a trusted partner in securing our elections is crucial. Recent years have brought unprecedented threats to our election system, including some from highly sophisticated foreign government-aligned entities. It's essential that we marshal bipartisan support and cooperative actions in response. Part of that response must be a commitment to providing a predictable, sustainable, and reliable stream of funding for our elections. We know what we must do to ensure our elections are secure in our states, but oftentimes must scrape together funding from multiple sources to meet our needs. Federal resources are essential for supporting personnel, purchasing or upgrading voting machines, or maintaining statewide voter registration databases. (36:04) Now I'm going to talk about what we're doing in Michigan to ensure our elections continue to be secure, accessible, and fair. First, we're working with our clerks to support a secure and transparent election infrastructure and other resources like funding, trainings, personnel that we provide help us ensure we can work with local officials to meet the needs of their communities. Secondly, we're building robust partnerships with a broad and diverse collection and coalition of faith leaders, business leaders, veterans organizations, colleges and universities, senior centers, and community leaders in every part of Michigan to ensure every eligible citizen is able to register and cast a ballot in every election. (36:44) I'm proud this includes working with our Detroit Lions and Detroit Pistons as well as NASCAR to meet people where they are and bring voting opportunities, voter registration opportunities, and nonpartisan election information to citizens throughout our state. Finally, we're taking steps to ensure the accuracy and security of our voter registration database and provide for the secure, efficient tabulation of paper ballots and post-election audits. According to federal data, Michigan is one of the most active states in the country for identifying and canceling the registration of ineligible citizens or voters. In 2020 and in 2022, the election assistance Commission reported that Michigan, the 10th largest state in the country, ranked fifth nationwide in removing ineligible voters from our registration database. As of March, we have canceled more than 800,000 voter registrations in the last five years. (37:38) All Michigan voters cast paper ballots, another key element of election security. Post-election risk limiting audits also verify the election results as for accuracy and look across the entire election. Post-election audits in the 2020 general election were the most extensive in our state's history. Each of the 250 local and statewide audits confirmed and reaffirmed the accuracy and security of that election. Despite this politically charged environment that we are in, in Michigan, we are working together to make data-driven decisions that preserve the integrity of our voting system. I and my colleagues at the state and local level in our state will continue to lead on this as the number second ranked in the country behind New Mexico with the same score, and we hope that you and your colleagues will do the same. Thank you again for inviting me to testify today.

Thank you very much, Secretary Benson. Secretary Fontes, you are now recognized for five minutes.

Thank you Mr. Chair, Ranking, and members of the committee. Ladies and gentlemen, before I begin, I, certainly as an individual and an American would, along with all of you I'm sure, reflect today's date. And may we never forget. (38:52) My name is Adrian Fontes. The last time I testified before this committee, I was a candidate for this office. I now come before you as Arizona's 21st Secretary of State and it is indeed an honor to be back. You will find the details of the achievements and our preparations in my year and a half long administration in this office in my written testimony. But to summarize, let me begin by discussing the tabletop exercise that we've hosted for elections officials, law enforcement officials, and members of the media who all play critical roles in preparing for 2024, using and employing generative artificial intelligence deep fakes, and creating the nation's first AI advisory committee with partners from Open AI, Meta, Microsoft, and other national and international experts in the field to prepare not just for 2024, but for the future. (39:49) We have statewide deployed a ballot tracking system where Arizona's voters can get automatic notifications of the ballot of their status from the moment it gets mailed to them to the moment it returns back to the election department. That sort of transparency and accountability includes as well a voter registration notification system where any change in a voter's registration will be immediately transmitted to them as well. We've extended information technology services to rural and native communities to increase access and to decrease the sometimes prolific use of provisional balloting in our native lands. We've upgraded systems for our uniformed and overseas citizens so that those serving us in foreign lands who are eligible citizens can continue to vote in Arizona's elections. We created a fellowship program to assist our local county elections officials in their efforts and to train a new generation of certified elections officials across the Grand Canyon state. Given the threats and the losses that we've seen because of those threats in the profession, we must move towards a future. (40:58) We've prepared for and conducted four statewide elections in, well four elections in Arizona, including a presidential preference election, a primary election, and several jurisdictional elections, just in 2024 alone. This is not our first rodeo even this year, and we have significantly improved our training for new elections officials in Arizona, deploying innovative assessment and tiger teams of technologists and resources to shore up operations in every one of our county levels, county level election administration offices. But none of this is free and none of it is cheap. Our operations, administration, and security depend on intermittent, rare, and never enough funding from the Help America Vote Act grants that we were occasionally given by Congress. (41:46) In 2017, elections administration was declared critical infrastructure by the Department of Homeland Security and we still, as Secretary Benson has mentioned, have zero sustained and dependable federal funding for this critical infrastructure. Do the same for highways and dams and railroads and see what happens. We implore you, please consider, if this is such a big deal and if it is so important that we continue to have free, fair, and secure elections, fund them. (42:20) Now Arizona is in a unique place. The voters in 2004 passed what's called Proposition 200. And while I would challenge our election systems against any of them in the country to be the best in the nation in access to the ballot, I take no pride in the idea that we have denied eligible citizens the right to vote in far greater numbers than we would've prevented the vanishingly rare non-citizen voting that is alleged to be happening across the United States of America. When I took the office of County Recorder, we found 94,000 rejected voter registration forms. Many, many thousands of them duplicate forms where voters tried and tried and tried again to register. And after thorough research, 47,000 eligible American citizens were found to have been denied the right to vote because of that law. One voter was denied 17 different opportunities to cast a ballot in elections they were eligible for because of the paranoia around a fake problem. (43:35) Voter suppression is unfortunately alive and well where Arizona's voters bear the unusually high and unique burden not shouldered by any person in this room outside of Arizona's voters to provide documented proof of citizenship. Most embarrassingly, at this time right now, 13 to 17% of Arizona's fed only voters have ancestry on their tribal lands that extends beyond Western expansion and before the American Revolution. Thank you for the opportunity. I'm happy to answer any other questions.

The gentleman yields back. I'll begin our questions today followed by the ranking member, we'll then alternate between sides. I recognize myself for five minutes for the purpose of asking questions. We need to strengthen Americans confidence in our elections and I think there's some real common sense reforms that can be done to make sure Americans have that confidence in our elections. Secretary Toulouse Oliver, you reference how do we increase that. Would photo ID increase Americans confidence in their elections? Yes or no?

Mr. Ranking Member, I don't believe so.

You don't believe that having an individual show their photo ID saying they are who they say they are increases confidence in our elections.

Mr. Chairman, you asked me a yes or no question. I don't think that's a magic bullet. I think there's a lot that needs to happen.

I'm not asking you if it's a magic bullet. But I'll come to you, Secretary LaRose, do you think photo ID increases American's confidence in our elections?

A hundred percent, Mr. Chairman. And it's vastly popular among both Republicans and Democrats.

Because it makes total sense, right?

A hundred percent.

That you should go in and show your photo ID. If you board an airplane, you got to show your photo ID. You want to buy a six-pack of beer? You got to show a photo ID. If you go in to vote, it makes total sense that you should have to show your photo ID just to simply say you are who you say you are, right?

Absolutely.

Makes total sense. And as we think about other states, I know New Mexico doesn't have a photo ID law. Something that maybe the state of New Mexico should look at is, per your comment, we're all working together to increase American's confidence in our elections. There's some real common-sense reforms we would like to see made in states like New Mexico that doesn't have a photo ID law. Mr. LaRose, you removed 500 non-citizens from the voting rolls. In reading your remarks and in conversations with you, you went through, took your state motor vehicle database, you cross-referenced that from the DHS SAVE database and were able to determine that there were 500 non-citizens on your voter rolls. Is that accurate?

That's accurate, Mr. Chairman.

And so as we look to other states, Mr. Fontes, you said you removed a number of ineligible voters. Ms. Benson, you referenced that you removed I think 800,000 ineligible voters over the course of the past five years. Did you do the same work that Mr. LaRose did where you checked your vehicle database and cross-referenced the DHS Save database? I'll start with you, Secretary Benson.

Thank you. We actually do a number of things to ensure and review the eligibility of our citizens.

Do you utilize the-

And we do a number of audits, actually. We use the SAVE system when people are actually registering and getting their license, but we can't use it to actually go back and look at people who are already registered.

Why not?

Because the way that the system is set up. But what we do do, if I could answer-

So we could, so we could. Would you utilize it if we set it up and get you access?

May I respond to the auditing we are already doing, which is makes that unnecessary? We actually go back and every single person-

How do you confirm whether or not individual is citizen without doing a back check to the SAVE database?

Everyone who goes into our system when they get a license or ID has to show some sort of documentation. In that documentation. Their citizenship is essentially verified, whether it's-

Is essentially verified. But why not check it against the SAVE database?

We do at that time.

But you don't retroactively do it in review?

We aren't able to do it retroactively based on the database. And notably-

So we could. So in my legislation, we actually give states back the access to be able to utilize that. Mr. LaRose, you were able to do that. How are you able to do that?

We're able to do that based on the agreement that we've reached with DHS to use the SAVE database. But there's a hole in using motor vehicle data exclusively, because there are some people that don't get a motor vehicle operator's license-

Without a doubt.

... or don't get a state ID. And that's where we are able to fill that hole by also querying the SAVE database, which is foolishly, they charge us a dollar or something a query to do that.

I'll note our legislation and in the SAVE Act gives states free access to the database, and per Mr. Secretary Fontes' comment with funding, what we're working on is making sure that states have that access unimpeded by cost and giving states access to the US information as to whether or not an individual is a citizen. I'd encourage all of you to continue to work with the federal government to get access as Mr. Secretary LaRose did and I'd encourage the House and the Senate to pass and to ultimately be signed into law, the SAVE Act, which would give states full access into that database. (48:31) I want to shift gears briefly if I can to you, Secretary Benson. President Biden put forward Executive Order 14019, it was referenced earlier, directing agencies to create strategic plans relating to voting. It's been criticized for directing federal taxpayer dollars to what many consider partisan get out the vote efforts. Are you aware that each executive branch agency, including the small business administration, was asked to produce a strategic plan under the executive order?

Yeah.

And are you aware the SBA has been subpoenaed twice to provide their strategic plan?

Yeah.

And have you seen the Small Business Administration's strategic plan?

I've seen the MOU between the SBA and our office.

Right. So you and your state conducted an MOU with the Small Business Administration. Did you see the Small Business Administration's strategic plan?

We did one thing-

Did you see the strategic plan? Have you reviewed it? Have you read it? Did you provide input into it?

We provided, under the boundaries of the MOU, a URL to the SBA so that they could register voters through their website.

But did you provide input into the Small Business Administration's strategic plan?

No.

Have you seen the Small Business Administration's strategic plan?

We, under the context-

Just, have you seen the Small Business Administration's strategic plan?

I said no. I said under the context-

So you've not seen the strategic plan.

I'm really not sure why you're barraging me with these questions. We provided the SBA with a URL-

Secretary Benson-

... so that they could register voters through their website.

I'm asking you specific questions.

... their website-

Specific question-

... that's it.

Let me give you a background as to why I'm asking you this question. It's actually worthy of it.

No, I just answered your question.

That's great. You asked why I'm asking this. I'm going to answer your question to me. The reason I'm asking you is the Small Business Administration, under executive order 14019 put forward a strategic plan and entered into an MOU in a contract with the state of Michigan. Has any other Secretary of State here entered into a contract with the Small Business Administration?

No.

None. So the record will reflect only Michigan. So it's quite interesting the Small Business Administration entered into an MOU with the state of Michigan, and they're doing that under the direction and under the strategy of a strategic plan. They have put forward a strategic plan, and all agencies have done this, and we have subpoenaed to get the strategic plan from every single federal agency. (50:51) These agencies are using our taxpayer dollars to put forward a partisan get out the vote effort, and they won't provide the strategic plan. This administration, the Biden administration continues to hide their strategic plan from every taxpayer in this country, and I think that does not encourage people to have more confidence in their elections. This administration should show the American people what is in the strategic plan they have put forward. (51:17) They have uniquely contracted only with the state of Michigan from the Small Business Administration. We've seen the Department of Education engage in using taxpayer dollars for work study. We've seen other federal agencies engage in our elections, and what we are asking is to be able to see this strategic plan as drafted by every federal agency. You haven't seen it. I haven't seen it. I believe the American people deserve to see the strategic plans as drafted by this administration as to what they're doing as it relates to this upcoming election. (51:51) Recognizing the time, I'll yield back and I'll recognize the Ranking Member Mr. Morelle for five minutes for the purpose of asking his questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, God forbid the government actually help people exercise their rights under the Constitution to vote. But... Excuse me? I've heard a lot of comments from this side of the aisle today in the mic and there's been some comments that I wish people would just be mindful, both of decorum and when you call people liars who are testifying before Congress, that's a federal offense. If you have evidence of it, you ought to bring it. Otherwise, people ought to be mindful and allow differences of opinion to be exercised, Mr. Chairman. (52:29) I want to, Secretary Benson, since you were asked the question, you were cut off both about the audit and any other comments you want to make about the work you're doing to register voters, please use the time to do that.

Thank you, Ranking Member. I will never apologize for doing everything I can to ensure every eligible citizen is registered to vote, and that involves partnerships. It involves partnerships with the Detroit Pistons. It involves partnerships with the Detroit Lions, with NASCAR and yes, federal agencies who, if they ask us to provide them a unique URL so that someone can register to vote through their website into ours, we will do that because it's my responsibility and duty as the chief election officer for the state of Michigan, and it's one of the reasons we are ranked so high in the nation for being one of the best states in the country for voting.

Thank you for that. I want to come back to something else that was talked about. Michigan and other states, California, Arizona became the target of mis and disinformation around ballot counting procedures and how long it takes to count ballots and certify election results. (53:39) Explain to me, if you can, why counting ballots can extend beyond election night. It seems to mystify people that if you're postmarked before the time voting ends, that somehow that ballot shouldn't be counted. But is it false to imply any wrongdoing simply because results are not final on election night? That was to Secretary Benson.

Oh, sorry. About auditing on election night or... Sorry.

Yeah, just explain why counting ballots beyond... It could extend beyond election night.

Oh, I'm sorry.

Everyone wants results the night of. Are there legitimate reasons why-

Sure. I apologize. I misunderstood. We count every valid vote in our state and only valid votes. Under our law, there are three options to vote in our state, whether people vote from home and return their ballots through the mail, vote early and vote in person on election day. However someone chooses to vote, we have a responsibility to count that vote and it does take time to do so. And we'll never sacrifice accuracy and security in tabulating our votes over efficiency, although we understand the urgency of the moment and the fact that the eyes of the nation will often be on our state to deliver results, but our priority will always be ensuring their accuracy. (54:53) I'm proud that even in the 2020 election when some states did take several days, we had the unofficial results for our state prepared and public within 24 hours of the polls closing. And within that time period we worked transparently to ensure that people understood we were securely and accurately counting every vote and trying to do so and working with our clerks to do so as efficiently as possible.

Thank you. I want to ask you, Secretary Oliver, last year you mentioned, I think New Mexico, an act of the New Mexico Voting Rights Act included provisions to expand voter access to the ballot. How are you able to expand rather than restrict voters access to things like mail-in voting, drop boxes, same-day voter registration while maintaining security and integrity? I know you've got about a minute, but if you mind just to give us high level.

Sure, Ranking Member. Thank you. So as has been discussed here today, my colleague from Ohio said we can do both at the same time, both make sure elections are secure and accessible. (55:54) Importantly, one of the areas we focused on in New Mexico was access for our native voters. With 12% native voting population in our state, we have the highest native voting population and it's very rural. And so not just for our native voters, but for our rural voters as well, we wanted to make sure that they had better access to getting a ballot through the mail if that's how they choose to vote for our tribal communities. If their tribal communities were closed due to a public health emergency or some other type of emergency, that they were not only able to ensure that folks got ballots but were able to return them securely. Our secure drop containers throughout the state are 24/7 video monitored. They're tamperproof. They need to be checked regularly by bipartisan staff from the county clerk's office in that county and transported securely and accounted for with chain of custody in every case. (56:50) So those are a few of the highlights, Mr. Ranking Member.

Very good. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

The gentleman yields back. Dr. Murphy is recognized for five minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for coming today. I have to say, I'm sorry if people have threatened individuals. We get threats. Our threats are up 300, 400%. And so it's sadly enough the world we live in and I blame social media primarily for all of us, for all of us. (57:19) Miss Toulouse Oliver, you made a statement that kind of bothered me a little bit. You said frivolous FOIA requests. That's the whole purpose of transparent government. We've had FOIA requests that go out to the FBI, to some of these other institutions that never get returned. That's the whole purpose of transparent government. And I believe this is really the basis of where the voter angst and anger is coming from because we are not seeing a transparent government. You look at the SBA and I'll ask Ms. Benson, really, at this point in time, you want every eligible voter to do something. You're aware that the VA, by executive order, is enrolling people, correct, in your state?

We meet people where they are and if they're veterans or service members, I welcome every opportunity-

And are you aware that the two places in the VA's in the state of Michigan are both in Democratic districts, no Republican districts whatsoever-

No, it's actually... That's not accurate. That's not accurate.

Well, that was accurate yesterday in our VA meeting.

No, it's-

So this is where we-

It's a website, so it is available to everybody. It's a URL on our website.

This is where comes from because it is due for thee as we tell you to do. And this is where the chairman was talking about, yeah, we are doing voter registration, but it is only for Democrats. It is not across the board. And this is where the angst and the anger comes from because this administration has said, "Oh yeah, we're doing transparent things." But we're not doing transparent things. It is absolutely for Democrats, it is absolutely to try to change elections. And when I got through 2020, I'm a surgeon, I am very objective. Cancer doesn't know Republican or Democrat. I look at things absolutely objective. Why the hell are deceased people still on your voter rolls? And why does it take a lawsuit by the Public Interest Legal Foundation to sue you to get those people off the voter rolls? Tell me.

Which one of those three questions did you want me to answer first?

Please endure me.

Okay, so I'll take the last first. That lawsuit was dismissed because we actually are ranked forth in the country as the federal judge noticed at the top the fifth of the country-

So do you have deceased people on your voter rolls, yes or no?

We vigorously-

Yes or no?

We do everything we can and, just like every other state, to remove... We actually-

Should a deceased person be on your voter roll?

No. And that's why we remove them once we receive information that-

Should an illegal person who's in this country illegally vote in any election?

No.

Okay. What if somebody is unknowingly registered to vote in an election, they're illegal in this country, should their vote be counted?

No.

Okay, great. I would love to hear that and love everybody to embrace that.

We do.

That's great. Guys, this is... Why would you not, Ms. Toulouse Oliver, why would you not embrace voter ID?

We do have voter ID in New Mexico. We just have a variety of different ways that voters can confirm their identity.

Yeah, so this is where the folks in Georgia screamed about voter ID. Voter ID is going to suppress the vote, suppress the vote when they had the greatest turnout in history. If you don't want voter ID, why would the reason for not? It's BS to think it is suppressing the vote. BS. BS. And the only other reason that people would want that is so that people could vote who are not eligible to vote. (01:00:43) And so this is where the angst comes from. It comes from lack of transparency, it comes from smugness, it comes from the fact this administration is doing everything it can to push one particular narrative into a one-party state. And I say that objectively after looking things objectively and trying to scrub the data, scrub what's going on. And it is absolutely horrible that we are doing this here in the United States and we didn't find out years ago because it wasn't being done. And whoever has been running the White House for the last three and a half years has been pushing a narrative to try to get one-party rule. Period. (01:01:21) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll yield back.

The gentleman yields back. Congressman Kilmer is recognized for five minutes.

Thank you, Chairman. And now for something completely different. First, I just want to thank you all for what you do. I think it really matters. I think the federal government should be ensuring that you have predictable funding and the resources you need to make sure that people can vote. So thank you. (01:01:45) I want to touch on a topic that hasn't come up yet today, and that's our preparedness to ensure the continuity of this institution in the face of the unthinkable happening if there is a mass casualty event and the role that you all play in that. We have sadly seen a dramatic increase in the amount of threats against members of Congress. This committee is looking into whether states are appropriately positioned to act and to ensure the continuity of government and operations in the event of something horrific happening. (01:02:21) I know you all have enough to worry about, but this is a topic that the Select Committee on the Modernization of Congress looked at and I think it is one that demands more attention. And thankfully, and I thank the Chair for this, and Chairwoman Bice, a bipartisan group of us sent a letter to the Government Accountability Office and to all of you and to your fellow secretaries of state asking you to participate in a report that the Government Accountability Office is doing just to see whether we're prepared. (01:02:52) It's designed to inform Congress about your ability to comply with existing federal requirements for filling mass vacancies in state's representation following a mass casualty event. Current law is that a special election needs to be held within 49 days in the event of a mass casualty if there's more than a hundred vacancies in the House. So we sent you a letter just asking you to work with the Government Accountability Office and answer their questions. (01:03:19) Can I just ask quickly, yes or no, will you all work with the GAO and just respond to their questions? Can I just have affirmative yes from everybody?

Yes.

Yes.

Sure.

Okay. Thank you for that. We will only be able to solve problems insofar as we understand the problem. And for you, Secretary Toulouse Oliver, given your state's leadership of the National Association of State Election Directors and the National Association of Secretaries of State, both of whom we've spoken to about this before, could you just speak about the time and resources needed to effectively hold a special election from your perspective? And do you think the current law of 49 days is doable?

Thank you very much, Representative, for asking that question. So we actually recently modified our special election law in New Mexico. We have a hundred-day timeframe that's codified between when the vacancy occurs and when the election has to happen. And that was really compacting the timeframe we felt as short as we could possibly do it with also having a well-prepared, accurate election that the voters are ready for as well as election administrators. 49 days would be really pushing it. (01:04:28) By federal law, we have to mail out ballots 45 days before an election. So that gives you four days between a vacancy being created, candidacies being nominated and declared. I just don't think that's realistic. I obviously understand the urgency of filling those seats obviously, but it would be a huge challenge.

And the steps in the process, military voters, all of those sorts of things need to be accounted for as well, right?

Absolutely. Again, 49 days, okay. And then on day four of that period, you're already mailing out ballots to your uniformed military voters and overseas voters. I think that's just incredibly unrealistic.

So one of the things we're trying to figure out is, I hear 49 days and I think, man, that's a long time for Congress to be missing a hundred members or more or in a mass casualty event, every time I go in the State of the Union, I think like, "But for the grace of God go we." So 49 days is a long time, and what I hear you saying is that would be really hard to achieve.

Again, I think as election administrators, I think we can all say we're very used to making things work. We will make things work, whatever we have to do. You are not going to have as accurate an election and it's going to be really hard for those election administrators to make that kind of timeframe work in a way that ensures that those overseas voters are getting their ballots, not to mention being ready for things like early voting and absentee voting in all the states. Very challenging timeframe, Representative.

I thank you for your response and thank you for each of you for being willing to work with the GAO. We're trying to figure out whether there's a better way to do this. So thank you. I yield back.

Gentleman yields back. Congressman Loudermilk is recognized for five minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank all of you for being here. I appreciate the work that you guys do. Look, whether we like it or not, election integrity is a huge issue, bipartisan issue in this country. Whether it's perception or reality, people have to have confidence in their elections. And the questioning of elections is on both sides of the aisle. It's not just one side of the aisle. (01:06:42) In 2018, Georgia's gubernatorial election, Stacey Abrams refused to acknowledge her defeat by Brian Kemp, citing integrity of the Georgia election. So we see it on both sides. This is an issue that has to be addressed. At least in Georgia, the largest concern is over mail-in ballots. Through studies over years and years, when there is fraud, and there is fraud in every election, we have to acknowledge that. It's an issue that's in our country. It's in every state. (01:07:18) It's minimizing that fraud as best as we can to make sure that it doesn't affect the outcome of the election. And then we have to do it in such a way that it gives the populace confidence that we are at least trying our best to have an election that's full of integrity. So with that, Secretary Fontes, just to simplify things, I'll just address questions to you. (01:07:43) In Arizona, like Arizona, many voters choose to vote by mail. Can you tell the committee what protections Arizona has in place to ensure mail-in ballots are actually going to voters at their correct mailing address and that the signatures on the ballots match the signature Arizona has on file for each voter?

Mr. Chair, Mr. Loudermilk, first and foremost, I have to take umbrage with the notion that the conclusory statement that you made there is fraud in every election. That's just not true. It's never been proven. So I'll start there.

Let me ask you-

As for the address verification-

You can verify... This is my time. You can verify to this committee that there is no fraud in any Arizona election, a hundred percent?

It's an entirely different question than stating that there is fraud in every election. It's a very different... That's exactly what you said, sir.

Oh, I did say that.

But to answer your question-

I don't see the difference is if, let's say-

If you'd like me to answer your question-

Sir, the time belongs to me.

Yes sir.

We can have an interaction, but you have to allow me to continue on with something you brought up. I don't see how there's a difference by saying that there is fraud in every election and then you can't guarantee that you've never had an election without fraud. But this is, I think we have to be intellectually honest going forward. (01:09:06) We deal with a constituency where not every one abides by a common moral code that we respect the rights of each other and we follow the rule of law. There are cheaters out there in every state. We can't fix the problem unless we're intellectually honest. (01:09:21) So with that, if you could please now address the issue of how do you ensure mail-in ballots are actually going to voters at their correct mailing address, and how do you ensure that the signatures match those that you have on file?

Mr. Chair, Mr. Loudermilk, as to the address verification system that we employ in Arizona, which has been in place for a very, very long time, continuously updated, we use the National Change of Address Database by the United States Postal Service. We use a first and second notice system to our county registrars, which will send a second piece of mail if we have returned election mail. And that second piece of mail is a second notice to the registrar. That back and forth communication via election mail, which is a little different than first-class mail, it cannot be forwarded, by the way. So those are some of the techniques that we use, among others. (01:10:20) But I would like to touch on the signature verification system that again, we've been using for a very long time in Arizona, a couple of decades, as a matter of fact, that uses three layers of human eyeballs on these signatures. And these folks, by the way, I would argue, are better than the signature-checking folks in some law enforcement agencies because they don't just do ballots on election day. As I indicated in my opening, we've already had four elections in Arizona. Guess what? Over 80% of our ballots on average now are by mail. And that means every single one of those ballots has to be signature verified. These are the same people trained by the trainers who train the FBI in their signature verification process.

So let me follow up on that. Are the signatures verified against the signature on the application or on the registration?

Well, that is essentially one and the same. And we keep a lot of those signatures in place to have a total voter record, and we will hopefully be able to, although there's been efforts against this, utilize the entire record of a voter's signature because it changes. It adjusts over time. We get a little older, sometimes you have something like Parkinson's or a physical injury that gets in the way. And because that does happen, if we have a mismatch signature, we make every effort to contact those voters either by phone or email, or even employ some of the political parties to go chase down ballots where there are mismatches before the end of the cure period.

All right, thank you. I yield back.

Gentleman yields back. Representative Torres is recognized for five minutes.

Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. And once again, I also want to thank each and every one of you for being here today and for your bravery that you exercise every day. And I hope you are doing everything that you can to take care of the people that are employed under you that you manage because truly it is a scary time for all of you. (01:12:27) Here we are 55 days before election and just days away from ballots, mail ballots going out across the US and across the world to Americans abroad and military personnel. So election day is pretty much on top of us, but unfortunately, election officials and workers have seen a rise again in dangerous threats, harassment and unprecedented attacks across the country. In fact, several witnesses here, if not all, have been direct victims of intimidation, violence at the hands of MAGA extremists who have been inspired by big lie conspiracies about election security. (01:13:23) Let's be clear about where the responsibility lies here. The former President Trump and now their Republican nominee for president took to social media just this past weekend threatening to jail election officials and casting doubt, once again, about the integrity of the 2024 elections in the event that he loses because the loser can't lose. (01:13:56) So let's also be clear, it's not just elected officials who face threats and intimidation. Last year a jury ordered Rudy Giuliani, former President Trump's lawyer to pay $148 million for defaming Georgia election workers who were forced to go into hiding because of the violent threats against them. (01:14:22) In July, a man was sentenced to 14 months in prison for sending a death threat to Michigan election worker after the November, 2020 election. And in Florida, the governor's election police are going down door to door harassing petition signers. (01:14:44) Secretary Benson, in your testimony, you mentioned that you yourself have been threatened, as has your staff and election officials across Michigan. How has this constant mis and disinformation

Information impacted your office and election workers that you employ?

Thank you, Congresswoman, for that question, and thank you all for your questions today. I really want to emphasize the power of evidence, first and foremost, when it comes to election administration or any alleged irregularities. That's really what I think has to be at the heart of any type of concerns that are expressed, evidence of wrongdoing, evidence of irregularities. And when it comes to evidence in these most recent years, there has been none, despite multiple investigations and audits by committees in our state and in many others. (01:15:43) So in the absence of that evidence, that's why, although I understand and people do and should have rightly placed faith in our elections, and I understand the concerns that people have as a result of allegations that are thrown around quite flippantly, I think, by a lot of leaders today, the results of meritless requests and meritless accusations and false rhetoric is that people show up on my doorstep when I'm inside trying to hang Christmas decorations with my four-year-old son, screaming into a megaphone, "You're a murderer and you should be arrested and tried for treason." (01:16:20) That's the reality of all this. That's actually who it impacts, those of us who are just trying to do our jobs with integrity because we love our jobs. Every single one of us is professionals who signed up for this work because we believe in making sure every voice is heard, not just one party's voice, every voice, every vote being counted that's valid. And the fact that now all of us, including election workers who also sign up to do this work with pride for very little pay, are now, at the result of lies and misinformation, on the other side of threats and rhetoric that make us afraid to go to work, afraid to go grocery shopping, afraid to take our kid to school, afraid to go into our backyard because we don't know what might be lurking in the bushes. And that's real. That's what we've experiencing, not just this last week, but these last four years. (01:17:11) And so I hope that that story or those stories can be in the minds of everyone as you go into this election season.

Thank you for your testimony, and I yield back.

The gentlewoman yields back. Congresswoman Bice is recognized for five minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the ranking member for bringing us together today. (01:17:28) Ms. Benson, I want to start out by saying I need you to be on notice that 10 million non-citizens have entered this country illegally, and municipalities across the country are allowing them to vote in local elections. If states can't keep one voter roll registration clean, imagine keeping two separated. (01:17:48) So let me start by addressing Secretary Byrd, LaRose, and Warner. Clearly, the Democrat secretaries here have engaged in get-out-the-vote efforts that the Biden administration is spearheading, and certainly, I don't know if you've been contacted and asked to participate in any of these programs, but in my opinion, voter registration is incredibly important. However, I think the SBA should be focused on their sole mission, which is helping small businesses across this country be successful. I think the Department of Education should be focused on fixing their failed FAFSA rollout and not focused on registering voters. It's absurd that the administration has defied two subpoenas regarding that get-out-the-vote effort. (01:18:36) You know, have either of you, Mr. Byrd, Mr. LaRose, or Mr. Warner, been contacted about these get-out-the-vote efforts?

We have not, and we have not had any evidence or reports of federal agencies in Florida doing that, and if they were to request, we wouldn't allow them. But we've gone even further in our state of voter public assistance agencies that serve as VRAs under the NVRA. We have now instructed them that if someone reports as being a non-citizen, that they will report that to us so we can compare it against the voter rolls, and we specifically prohibit them from offering them voter registration forms if they report as a non-citizen.

Quickly, Mr. LaRose and Mr. Warner?

I helped lead an effort to sue the Biden administration to stop this foolish executive order, so I think they know better than to ask me.

Mr. Warner?

We have specifically written the White House asking to rescind that order because it's unconstitutional, that executive order.

Thank you. I want to start with you, Secretary Fontes. Following the Supreme Court's infamous 2013 decision in the Arizona Tribal, Arizona had to move to a system where it requires proof of citizenship for those registering to vote in state elections, but no proof for those using the federal form to register to vote in a federal election. (01:19:48) Can you tell the committee how the federal-only voter... How many, I'm sorry, how many federal-only voters there are in Arizona?

Mr. Chair-

Your microphone.

Mr. Chair, Congresswoman, as we've heard those rolls change every day, we are at approximately 44,000 at this time. The two-thirds of them are under 24 years of age, and as I indicated earlier, 13 to 17% of them are members of Native American tribes or have addresses on tribal lands.

How many voters are there that can vote in all elections?

We're over 4 million.

What is the effect on Arizona's elections following the Supreme Court late-August order of the Republican National Committee v. Mi Familia Vota? Are you providing individuals who are denied registration for failing to provide documentary proof of citizenship with this state voter registration form with the federal form to encourage individuals to circumvent the DPOC requirement that was just upheld by the Supreme Court?

We've issued guidance under... We've issued guidance to all of our voter registrars across the state with legal counsel at our side from the Attorney General's office to comply with the US Supreme Court ruling. I think it is very important for folks to understand that the information gathered on each of those forms is exactly the same. And so while we will follow the law as indicated by the United States Supreme Court, again, these efforts will result in the reduction of the capacity of some US citizens from being able to vote.

My time is limited. I would like to request unanimous consent to submit a letter from Kevin Klein and Gina Swoboda to Secretary Fontes for the record.

Without objection.

So it's the case that a voter that registers in Arizona on the Arizona form, their application will not be processed unless they provide proof of citizenship. Is that correct?

It is the state of the law and that is what we have advised our voter registrars. That is correct.

But voters can still register with the federal form to vote in a federal election, provide no proof of citizenship, and be allowed to vote in November?

That's exactly how you vote in your district, ma'am.

Actually, I have voter authorization and voter ID in my state, but with that, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the time and I yield back.

The gentlewoman yields back. Representative Carey from the state of Ohio is recognized for five minutes.

I want to thank the chairman. I also want to thank the witnesses for being here today, to whom I've known for many years. It's good to see you both. And I really appreciate you all traveling this way, and obviously, having Ohio's own Secretary of State here is quite an honor. (01:22:39) As my colleagues have already mentioned today, this presents us a critical opportunity to ensure the safeguarding, I think all of you have said this, of American's elections. In fact, earlier this week, my dear friend, Mr. Morelle, from across the aisle, we did a bill together, the COCOA Act, or the Confirmation of Congressional Observers Act, a bipartisan bill. This bill was another example of just the common-sense bipartisan legislation that we do on this committee that ensures confidence with Americans. (01:23:16) So I'm going to turn a little bit to Secretary LaRose, if you don't mind. If you recall, I believe it was in June of this year, our governor, Mike DeWine, signed into law a new campaign finance provision to prevent foreign nationals from engaging in Ohio's elections. Now, for those of you who don't know, we have an Issue 1 ballot that is actually going to be up in November, and if the numbers that I'm seeing are correct, over $26 million has been spent on the yes vote, of which a large portion of that came from foreign entities, and only about $200,000, $200,000 from $26 million... Think about this. $26 million raised, only $200,000 actually came from the state of Ohio. So a lot of people outside of Ohio had a lot of interest in what Ohio was doing in its election. (01:24:18) Can you talk about why this change was needed? I kind of pretty much laid it out there for you, Mr. Secretary, but if you would, please.

Well, thank you, Congressman. Unfortunately, it is needed because there are foreigners who think that they have a role in Ohio's elections, including, by the way, a Swiss billionaire, who the day the governor called the special session to pass the bill barring foreign people from contributing, made a contribution because he was trying to get in under the wire. $6 million Hansjörg Wyss gave to an issue in Ohio. By the way-

What was his name again? I just want to make sure we're clear on this.

Hansjörg Wyss, the same guy that funds a fake news operation in Ohio that of course supports the issue that he's funding as well.

And he is from Switzerland, just so we're clear?

The country of Switzerland, yes. Fondue, Swiss cheese, all of that, yep.

Okay. All right. So how does the law that the governor signed prevent foreign nationals from engaging? And I know that he kind of tried to circumvent the system, giving the timeframe, but how has it changed and now?

Well, unfortunately, it's currently not in effect because of a ruling by a federal judge. We are appealing that because, again, Ohioans want us to keep foreign actors out of our elections, and so unfortunately, that law is on hold right now.

So it's something that Ohioans wanted, but we have a judge that is trying to say that... Can you give me me a little more details about the court case?

Yeah, so it was based on the inclusion of permanent legal residents in the legislation. We kind of warned the legislature they may not want to include permanent legal residents, and that is the part that has caused this to be held up by the federal court.

And can you give me the number that our friend from Switzerland, again, donated to this cause?

$6 million, the day the governor called the special election to outlaw foreign donations.

Unbelievable. I don't have much time left, but just quickly, in Ohio, like Florida, many voters choose to vote by mail. Can you tell the committee what protections Ohio has in place to prevent mail- in ballot fraud?

Yep. It starts with maintaining accurate voter rolls. We remove deceased voters on a monthly basis. Of course, we check the identification of someone when they request an absentee ballot. We don't mail out unsolicited absentee ballots, which would be a foolish idea, in my opinion. We also allow people to track their ballots. You go to our website, you can track your ballot, and make sure that it's received. These are just a few of the safeguards that we have in place.

Again, I want to thank all the witnesses for being here and appreciate your time. And unfortunately, we do have two committees that are running simultaneously. I would like to hear the rest of the questions, but I am going to have to go. But it's good to see you both, my friends, and look forward to seeing you again. (01:27:11) With that, I yield back.

The gentleman yields back. We now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr. D'Esposito, for five minutes for the purpose of asking his questions.

Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for being here this morning, this afternoon. (01:27:28) Obviously, the most important, one of the most important things we face is to make sure that our elections are fair and that our elections are secure, and I think it's one of the biggest concerns of the American people. And I want to thank our chairman for his leadership over the 118th Congress in really focusing and honing in on how to make these elections more secure, to make sure that they are fair, to make sure that American citizens are the ones voting in the American process. (01:28:03) And I've heard not only today, but throughout conversations, that people are saying, "Well, the amount of non-citizens voting is not really significant." So I have to... Really, this is a question for everybody because it's one that really should keep people up at night. What is the red line? Right? Democrats say that there is not a significant number of non-citizens registered to vote, but yet there's still evidence of non-citizens on voter rolls, right? So we're being told by Democrats that it's not a significant number, but yet they're still on the voter rolls. (01:28:54) So I'm going to start, I guess from right to left, left to right, and just I guess tell us, what's the red line? What is the number that we think makes it significant? What is the number that would require the federal government to implement policies to prevent non-citizens from voting in our elections, one of our most sacred right?

Congressmen, it should be a zero-tolerance policy. In Florida, in 2,537 votes separated President Bush from Senator Gore. Small numbers matter in elections. Our current speaker of the house lost his first race by two votes. If there were three illegal votes, that is overwhelming to his race. There should be a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to non-citizens.

Agree, zero tolerance. Every year, dozens of elections in Ohio come down to a single vote, and those are usually local elections, but those matter. We say, "Every vote matters." We mean that. And we should not allow any non-citizens to be on our voter rolls.

I agree 100% with the previous two comments, zero tolerance.

Agreed, and it is already illegal for non-citizens to register and vote, and I completely agree with that.

I agree as well. We're doing everything we can to ensure that non-citizens are not able to vote and that only US citizens vote in our election, and it's working. There's no evidence that non-citizens are voting. If they were, it would be easy to prove since voting records are public, and despite numerous organizations spending a lot of money to try to convince people that non-citizens are voting, none of these groups have actually been able to provide any evidence of it.

I'll save you time and just say, "I agree, sir."

Right. Mr. LaRose, I'm going to let you follow up on the statement from Ms. Benson.

We found 135 this year that had voted. We found another 400 that were registered but hadn't yet voted, and this idea that it's already illegal, it's illegal to hijack airplanes, but we don't get rid of the TSA.

It's also illegal to use fentanyl and smuggle fentanyl into the country. It's also illegal to come across our southern border and not face asylum. Right? It's also illegal for many things. It's illegal to carry guns in some of our bluest cities and states, but yet every day there is more and more gun violence. (01:31:05) So I think what we're seeing here is that perhaps we need a better definition of the term significant because I think if one person that is not an American citizen has the ability to vote in our election, there is a serious problem. As was mentioned by many of our witnesses, our elections are coming down to just dozens or hundreds of votes. We had a state assembly race in my congressional district just two years ago where it came down to 138 votes. So yes, every vote does count. (01:31:35) And as we continue to sit here and try to deny the fact that there are non-citizens not only registering but actually voting in our elections, it is clear that that is not a fact because there are people casting ballots throughout this country that are non-citizens. And I believe after the last three and a half years where we've saw 3.5, or I should say over close to 15 million people come across our southern border, we would be lying to ourselves to think that some of them are not going to take the opportunity to vote. (01:32:04) So with that, I think that this committee continues to do the work that we do to secure our elections. I want to thank you all for your work, and Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

The gentleman yields back. We now recognize Ms. Lee, the former Secretary of State of the State of Florida, for five minutes for asking her questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening this important hearing, and to all of our witnesses who are here today, it is indeed a pleasure to see you. As Florida's former Secretary of State, I appreciate how important your jobs are and how critical your jobs are to American confidence in elections and ensuring that we have free and fair elections in the United States. So thank you to all of you for being here today. (01:32:46) Secretary Byrd, I'd like to go back to you. You mentioned in your opening a couple of concepts that I think are very important as it relates to public confidence and really an example of some of the best practices that we could see in elections in our country. I'd like to start with voting systems and transparency. (01:33:05) Is it correct, Secretary Byrd, that the Florida Department of State tests and certifies every voting system before it is used in an election?

That is correct.

Is it also true, Secretary Byrd, that before an election, local election officials perform testing and auditing of those systems again before they're used?

Yes.

And that testing and auditing of the election systems prior to every election is open to the public, is it not?

Absolutely open to the public.

And would you tell us this, while voting is going on during elections, are those voting systems ever connected to the internet?

They are not connected to the internet.

In other words, Secretary Byrd, is it possible to hack a voting system during an election?

It is not.

Would you tell us, Secretary, why it is you think that these measures you've just described are important and how they relate to public confidence in elections?

Well, everything we do in Florida is to build voter confidence, and while we have 67 counties and 67 supervisors of elections who are independently elected constitutional officers, we have a uniform election code and it is my job, and your former job as the chief elections officer of the state, to make sure that we accommodate the needs of our largest county in Miami-Dade and our smallest county in Liberty County, that they can all operate with different resources and funding at the county level, but they also follow the state law.

I'd like to go back to something else that was mentioned earlier in this hearing. There was reference made to what was described as, "Governor DeSantis's election police." In fact, Secretary Byrd, is that not the Florida Department of State's Office of Election Crimes and Security?

It is. It was one of the governor's top election integrity priorities to create the Office of Election Crimes and Security. That office, which is housed in the Department of State, we investigate allegations of election fraud and crimes. (01:34:56) And I think it's really important to note that people think, when they think, " Election fraud," they think of the presidential race. Election fraud includes campaign finance violations, voter registration fraud, initiative petition fraud, candidate qualifying fraud. We investigate all of those. And for all of the people who say there is no evidence of non-citizens voting and all of the... Come to Florida. We have the evidence because I'm required, my office is required to report it to the governor and the legislature every year.

And if you would, touch on the petition-gatherers, what that is, and explain for us why that is harmful to both the public and the elections process if there is fraud occurring during the petition-gathering process?

Those initiative petitions change or have the potential to change our state constitution. They enshrine, if they pass, they enshrine it in state law. There are organizations and businesses that send people from out of state into the states, pay them to gather signatures. We have victims of felony identity theft. They have come and reported that to us that their signature has been put, that their identity has been stolen, their signature has been placed on signature petition. We have a duty and obligation to investigate and provide relief to those victims. (01:36:12) But also, most of the reports of election fraud in Florida are reported by the county elections officials. It is happening and is our duty under the law to investigate.

And then one of the things, this question, I'll direct to all of our secretaries who are here with us today, one of the things that we've heard discussed during this hearing is the Election Observer Program, which Congress administers across the country, and this committee runs that program, and we deploy trained congressional staff and send them around as those observers in elections offices around America. (01:36:45) And I would like to hear from each of you on really just a yes or no if your office is prepared and ready to welcome these election observers during this election cycle. (01:36:58) We'll start with you, Secretary Byrd.

Yes, we welcome them.

Proudly.

Yes.

Of course.

Yes.

Happy to have them.

Right. Thank you all. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back

The gentlewoman yields back. I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for appearing before us. It's been helpful. Members of the committee may have some additional questions for you, and we ask that you please respond to these questions in writing. Without objection, each member will have five legislative days to insert additional materials into the record or to revise and extend their remarks. (01:37:29) I'll note for our members, we'll be moving into a markup. About two minutes after we'll allow the witnesses to depart, we'll move into a markup. (01:37:37) If there's no further business, I thank the members for their participation. Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.

In the last 90 minutes, we've witnessed a political bombshell in the making. Former Congresswoman Liz Cheney, Vice Chairwoman of the January 6th Select Committee and the most public-facing member of arguably the most conservative Republican dynasty in America, who earlier this week endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris, has gone even further, this time saying that she and her father, former Vice President Dick Cheney, will do something that, if you're even casually a follower of American politics, might think would mean hell has frozen over.