FEMA Hearing on Hurricane Response

Chairman Perry (00:00):

Themselves. In fact, there are still areas FEMA has not reached to assess damage. I can't wrap my head around the fact that the federal agency charged with leading our response to disasters cannot seem to maneuver to homes in the mountains of Western North Carolina. I mean, as an editorial, my goodness, one of the members of Congress was somehow able to navigate to these areas. I was in contact with him asking for the information because I couldn't get it anywhere else and he was giving me firsthand accounts at the time. Well then we learned how long of a process it's been for FEMA to deliver temporary housing trailers to communities in Western North Carolina living without power and heat. Clearly something is wrong with FEMA's process. I hope that my congressional colleague on our first panel will provide us or colleagues will provide us with candid insights into FEMA's response to Hurricane Helene.

(00:58)
The successes you've seen in the areas where there is cause for concern. In past disasters, we've seen delays in relief reaching the ground sometimes due to the scope of the disaster's impact and the resulting infrastructure damage, but also because of red tape and complex requirements. It seems at every term, there's some regulation, policy, or this is the way we've always done it approach that defies common sense. For example, as Secretary Mayorkas mentioned recently that the Disaster Relief Fund was being depleted, right after we appropriated $20 billion the DHS Inspector General noted billions of unspent fund tied to delayed disaster closeouts of up to 16 years. Congress and this committee continues to pass bills to streamline FEMA assistance, but it seems the more we try to cut red tape, FEMA adds more or just simply doesn't change course. I'm eager to hear from FEMA today on how they have worked with the federal, state, and local partners to speed up this process.

(02:01)
In response to concerns about FEMA's response to the recent disasters on October 11th, Chairman Sam Graves and I sent a letter to FEMA raising critical questions about the response to Hurricane Helene, reports of the slow pace of FEMA aid, and the state of the DRF. The chair now ask unanimous consent that this letter be included in the record. Without objection, so order. The response from FEMA administrator described how the continuing resolution passed by Congress brought the balance of the DRF to 21.9 billion and FEMA immediately obligated 8.8 billion in previously delayed projects. This reduced available funds for future disasters to 13.1 billion. The chair asked unanimous consent that FEMA's response letter also be included in the record and without objection, so ordered.

(02:53)
I am deeply troubled by how fast the DRF was depleted. Equally troubling is FEMA's forays into providing sheltering assistance to illegal aliens at the Southern border, which has cost taxpayers more than 1 billion since 2019. Although these funds have not come from the DRF, they are certainly taking dollars and staffing resources away from helping American. Correction FEMA's focus should remain on helping communities respond to and recover from natural disasters rather than on diverting taxpayer resources towards political initiatives like exacerbating the crisis at the Southern border, climate change, or picking and choosing which homes to canvas based on political signs. With that, I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on these topics. Chair now recognizes the ranking member Titus for five minutes for an opening statement.

Ms. Titus (03:45):

Well, thank you Mr. Chairman and thank our witnesses for joining us, the administrator, and our colleagues, Representatives Edwards and Castor whose districts and communities have been greatly impacted by this year's deadly and devastating hurricane season. As I've said many times before in this committee and beyond, climate change and its related severe weather events have changed the disaster landscape and they have strained capacity for all levels of government to respond. What's more, the data shows that these disasters are becoming more expensive, they're lasting longer, and they're having a greater impact on our communities than ever before. While we still await exact figures, preliminary estimates show that the combined price tag for just hurricanes, Milton and Helene will eclipse $170 billion. So far this year FEMA has provided assistance for 89, 89 presidentially declared emergencies and major disasters, including those covering hurricanes, wildfires, landslides, and tornadoes.

(04:52)
One of the main sources for providing support to disaster-stricken communities as you mentioned, Mr. Chairman is FEMA's Disaster Relief Fund, the DRF, which funds repair and restoration of public infrastructure, it supports hazard mitigation initiatives, and it provides financial assistance to disaster survivors. When the program is nearing depletion however, it enters immediate needs funding INF, which pauses all DRF-funded projects that are not life-saving operations. Since 2001, INF has been implemented 10 times, the most recent being just August of this year. The current continuing resolution provides $20 billion in budget authority for the DRF, so FEMA is no longer operating under INF. We know however these funding challenges will continue as fewer than $5 billion currently remains in that budget. That is why President Biden submitted a 100 billion supplementary request to Congress yesterday, and that includes $440 billion for FEMA. Congress must pass a supplemental to sufficiently fund the DRF so FEMA can continue to support ongoing recovery efforts as well as address those that will undoubtedly emerge in the future.

(06:14)
This funding is not for FEMA, it's for FEMA to provide to communities and individuals impacted. We also need to provide solutions for survivors and communities so they can recover more quickly and ensure that resources are deployed fairly. One of those solutions is my Disaster Survivor Fairness Act, which I introduced with my colleagues, Congressman Garret Graves, Troy Carter and Congresswoman Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon, also has the support of Congressman Chuck Edwards who you will hear from later today. Well, the most important aspects of the bill, which is already passed this committee unanimously at the beginning of the Congress, is to simplify the process for seeking assistance following a major disaster. It does this by creating a universal relief application across federal agencies so that we can ease the burden on families and small businesses, get rid of some of the red tape, speed up the process because this is the worst days of their lives and they need to have at least some assistance in the application process.

(07:18)
In this committee, we've held numerous hearings on the challenges faced by FEMA's workforce and I look forward to discussing those today. As we move forward however, we must also acknowledge the impact misinformation has on the ability to respond to these events. I was disgusted with the ridiculous rumors that were floating around cautioning people that government was going to bulldoze over their communities, seize their homes, and divert disaster aid to other programs. And those who perpetuated these claims spread the claims, claimed that they were legitimate. Well, shame on you. That just makes the process even worse.

(08:01)
I was also very upset to learn that a FEMA employee directed her disaster survivor assistance team to skip homes that had Trump signs. I condemn the employee's decision about discriminating with A, that should never be the case and Administer Criswell immediately did the right thing when she learned about this incident by firing the employee and referring the case to the Office of Special Counsel. To my colleagues testifying today and to Administer Criswell, we recognize the challenges you're facing and this committee wants to do what it can to help aid you, help those in the recovery process. So I look forward to your testimony and hope that we can stick to the issues at hand and not use this as a springboard to get into politics. And I yield back.

Chairman Perry (08:51):

Chair thanks the gentlewoman. The chair now recognizes the chairman of the Full Committee, Mr. Graves for five minutes for his opening statement.

Chairman Graves (08:57):

Thank you Chairman Perry and I do want to thank our witnesses for testifying today. This hearing comes at a crucial time. We're being told the Supplemental Appropriations bill is needed after Congress recently appropriated 20 billion to the Disaster Relief Fund. There have been ongoing concerns about how long FEMA takes to provide aid and rebuild after a disaster. Further, this committee has highlighted concerns that the Biden administration has prioritized equity, climate change, and assistance to migrants over disaster victims and readiness and response efforts. And then we add on top of all of this, the recent shocking reports the FEMA workers purposely avoided Hurricane-impacted homes that displayed signs in support of President Trump. Each of these reports alone are unacceptable, but combined they show a pattern of incompetence within the agency. And for more than a decade, I have sponsored and supported numerous pieces of legislation aimed at speeding up FEMA aid, cutting the bureaucracy and the red tape, and creating more transparency.

(10:08)
But it seems that despite these efforts, FEMA somehow finds new ways to make the recovery process more difficult for impacted communities. The agency is accountable directly to the president, and so the bug stops with the President regarding the constant mismanagement and lack of focus at its core mission. And I trust that under new leadership we will finally be able to reform FEMA in a way that works to support all Americans and refocus the agency on what it is supposed to do, and that's help people prepare for and recover from disasters without regard to an individual's political views. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I would yield back.

Chairman Perry (10:51):

Chairman thanks the gentleman. The chair now recognizes the ranking member of the Full Committee Mr. Larson for five minutes for his opening statement.

Mr. Larsen (10:58):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Thank the subcommittee ranking Dina Titus. Just one more speech and we'll get to the members of Congress panel, but thanks for calling This hearing today, the devastation that Hurricanes Helene and Milton created in the Southeast and Appalachia is gut-wrenching. Over 200 individuals lost their lives to Hurricanes Helene and Milton. The storms left over $170 billion of damage in their wake. That's the dollar amount we know of. Damage to water infrastructure in Western North Carolina was so severe that much of the region still does not have drinkable tap water. To aid affected communities, the administration improved major disaster declarations for Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia. So the recovery will take a lot of work and we are ready to provide the resources needed and I'm grateful that Representatives Edwards and Castor are here today to share what they've seen on the ground in their districts as a result.

(11:53)
And I think they, along with the rest of Congress would agree that we have to focus on passing a disaster supplemental immediately. Without funding federal agencies, including FEMA and the Small Business Administration cannot fulfill their missions and help disaster survivors. For over a month now the Small Business Administration Disaster Fund has been empty. In that time the applications of over 11,000 survivors have been approved for disaster loan assistance, but they will not receive any money until Congress makes more funding available. It's not a new problem. Congress has failed to approve critical long-term recovery funds for disasters in 2023 and 24 that occurred in 21 states ranging from Alabama and Arkansas to Texas, Vermont, and Washington State. FEMA's Disaster Relief Fund is once again approaching concernedly low levels with less than $5 billion remaining. It sounds like a lot of money, but it is not a lot of money when considered the cost of these disasters.

(12:51)
Disaster survivors should not be left wondering if promised disaster aid is coming. After losing everything, families should be focused on rebuilding their lives, not worrying about congressional dysfunction. Again, this is not isolated to the challenges that the people in North Carolina and Florida are facing. They are challenges that even my constituents are facing from previous disasters. So I would just call on the speaker to schedule a vote for Congress to consider President Biden's $100 billion disaster supplemental request as soon as possible.

(13:21)
Now in the wake of catastrophic disasters, it's important for Congress in FEMA to take stock of lessons learned. The misinformation that has circulated after recent disasters is creating barriers to recovery and putting disaster relief workers at risk. The presence of misinformation after disasters is not new. After Hurricane Katrina, false reports of widespread looting bred chaos and led to the tragic shooting of civilians as an example. After the Maui wildfires bogus claims that the federal government would steal survivors land were widely circulated, harming those in need of assistance. And however, false rumors following Hurricane Helene, especially in North Carolina were described by Administrator Criswell as the worst misinformation she's ever heard. These rumors increased distrust in the federal government resulting in armed threats against FEMA workers in the field and cause some survivors to refuse federal assistance.

(14:16)
The spread of misinformation on social media after disasters is increasing and this committee needs to work with FEMA to find solutions that can contain this phenomenon in the future. Disappointed that the President-elect himself amplified the misinformation by falsely claiming FEMA spent all of their funding on housing undocumented migrants. We can have a difference of opinion on whether that funding should occur, but that information was false. He also said FEMA would provide only $750 to disaster survivors who lost everything, which again is false. To set the record straight disaster survivors may be eligible for up to $42,500 of home repair assistance and $42,500 of other needs assistance from FEMA. And perhaps the debate we should have is whether that should be increased or not. And it is a responsibility of all members of Congress to correct that record regardless who is providing the misinformation and lead rather than amplify, lead in providing good information like Representative Edwards did unapologetically and consistently in Western North Carolina.

(15:22)
Now reports following Helene and Milton also indicate it's still too difficult for survivors to access FEMA assistance. Again, not isolated to Helene and Milton. Same problem with my district and many other districts around the country in previous disasters. First, the lack of a universal application for federal assistance means survivors may have to complete separate applications for several federal agencies that received the assistance they're entitled to. That's why this committee supports ranking member Titus's and representative Garret Graves bipartisan bill to create a universal application for federal disaster assistance. Second, I'm troubled by reports that 47% of calls made to FEMA during the week of October 14 through 20 were not answered, and that of the more than 260,000 survivors that registered for FEMA assistance, nearly 50% have been denied. Difficulty accessing this assistance is not unique to this disaster. The Government Accountability Office conducted nationwide interviews about disaster responses occurring between 2016 and 20 and found that FEMA regularly faces challenges managing its call center and field of staff.

(16:27)
FEMA often responds to high denial rates by saying survivors can appeal their award decision. That is not an adequate response, nor is that an adequate solution. Eligible survivors should have to fill out one application for FEMA assistance and it should be this committee's intent to make accessing FEMA aid simple and easy. Finally, when Administrator Criswell gets here, we'll have questions for her, but I do want to thank her for her service to this country as the first female FEMA Administrator and for all the positive policies she has implemented during her tenure. I want to thank you all for being here and look forward to our members' views on Helene and Milton. That I yield back

Chairman Perry (17:06):

Mr. Larsen yields. I'd like to now welcome our witnesses and thank you both for being here. Briefly I'd like to take a moment to explain our lighting system to you. In case you're unaware, there are three lights in front of you. Green means go, yellow means you're running out of time, and red means to conclude your remarks. Chair asked unanimous consent that the witness's full statement be included in the record. Without objection, so ordered. Chair also asked unanimous consent that the record of today's hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in writing. Without objection, so ordered. Chair also asked unanimous consent that the record remain open for 15 days for additional comments and information submitted by members or witnesses to be included in the record of hearing. Without objection, so ordered. As your written testimony has been made part of the record, the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks to five minutes. We will now turn to our first panel. With that, Congressman Edwards you are recognized for five minutes for your testimony.

Congressman Edwards (18:07):

Thank you, Chairman Perry, ranking member Titus and the members of the subcommittee. I appreciate this opportunity to speak to you today about FEMA's response to Hurricane Helene in North Carolina's 11th Congressional District. As a former member of this subcommittee, it's a privilege to offer a unique perspective, especially after being on the ground for seven weeks during one of the deadliest storms to hit the mainland United States in the last 50 years. To put this disaster into perspective, Hurricane Helene took 230 lives across seven states. 102 of those lives were in North Carolina, and tragically 80 of those were from the district that I represent.

(18:52)
80 of those were from the district that I represent. Only three storms since 1950 have claimed more lives with Hurricane Katrina being the most notable among those. The storm struck Western North Carolina on September 27, 2024. The National Weather Service issued early and dire warnings about the threat of catastrophic flooding as 10 to 15 inches of rain had already swelled rivers and creeks over the previous three days. And while this storm claimed 230 lives, I think it's important for me to tell you that NOAA and the National Weather Service worked expertly to save countless more lives. However, the destruction that followed was immense. In some areas water crested up to 40 feet above its normal levels destroying entire communities as it rushed through the mountain valleys carrying away homes, cars, and roads and massive landslides crushed many unsuspecting victims while they thought they were in the safety of their homes from the raging waters.

(20:08)
The economic damage in North Carolina alone is estimated at $53 billion with only about 5% of this damage covered by insurance. In the aftermath, FEMA's response was in some ways effective, but there were significant issues that need to be addressed. FEMA's core responsibility is to coordinate federal emergency management efforts and support state and local officials with critical resources. It seemed to me and many local officials in western North Carolina that it took up to three days before there was any real visibility from FEMA and that's just simply not good enough. Allow me to put this in perspective. The storm was over on September 27th for all practical purposes at about 10AM. We had 1 million people without power, we had 25 water systems destroyed, and for it to take three days for the visibility of FEMA is just not acceptable. There were folks in their homes not only without power, they couldn't flush toilets, they had no drinking water.

(21:25)
We were shut off from the rest of the world, and I can't help but think had this been an attack on American soil, would it take, should it take three days to see any real evidence of help from our federal government? I would hope not. The distribution of supplies in the immediate aftermath of Helene left much to be desired. For example, on day three after the storm, FEMA announced to me that it had delivered 400 pallets of desperately needed water to Western North Carolina. But when asked where those supplies had been delivered, FEMA couldn't provide one single location. They deferred responsibility to the state which left local officials in the dark about where resources were going and who could also not answer my simple question. A major concern in my district was FEMA's slow response in getting boots on the ground in some areas. For example, in one county, FEMA didn't arrive until over a week after the storm, and it wasn't until 20 days later that a disaster recovery center was opened.

(22:37)
In addition, FEMA's communication with local governments and the public was inconsistent and at times confusing. On one occasion, FEMA sent out a press release stating that a disaster recovery center would close temporarily without informing local officials only to retract it hours later after confusion, numerous inquiries, and local demands. Other failures include FEMA personnel changes with little or no notice to county governments, no shows for scheduled appointments, issuing hotel vouchers to displaced families that could only be redeemed two hours from those displaced families work or school, an inefficient inspection process that slows consideration of critical benefits, and the 50% threshold for substantial improvement and substantial damage definitions and their required actions are riddled with inconsistencies and irrational thinking. I could share with you many other breakdowns in the FEMA response, but five minutes is just not enough time.

(23:42)
My office has also seen a significant number of casework issues related to FEMA's individual assistant process. Constituents have reported receiving confusing correspondence, especially regarding initial denials, which only adds to the stress and confusion for people already dealing with the aftermath of the storm. I don't share these issues to criticize FEMA or its employees on the ground. Many hardworking men and women are doing everything that they can in incredibly difficult circumstances. However, as Congress, it's our job to conduct rigorous oversight and ensure that FEMA is held accountable and improves upon their processes. We must address the flaws in FEMA's response to prevent further delays in confusion in the recovery process. And in conclusion, the people of Western North Carolina are tired. The grief that they're experiencing is compounded by bureaucratic missteps, delays, and poor communication. Thank you again for this opportunity and I would welcome any questions that you may have.

Chairman Perry (24:51):

We thank the gentleman from North Carolina. Chair now recognizes Congresswoman Castor for five minutes for her testimony.

Congresswoman Castor (24:57):

Well thank you Chair Perry and ranking member Titus, Chair Graves and ranking member Larsen and the entire committee for the opportunity to testify before the committee today. I really appreciate the opportunity to be here with Congressman Edwards. My heart goes out to your community Congressman. Many Floridians have a special relationship with Western North Carolina. We always think that this is a place that we can go to escape many of the impacts of the extreme summer heat. So I don't think there's anywhere you can go right now to escape a lot of these extreme events. So we've got to do a better job providing for our neighbors, strengthening our infrastructure. But this hurricane season was particularly costly and deadly for my community in the state of Florida. Think of the West Coast and the Big Bend down through Rep Bilirakis, to Luna, to Buchanan over probably Congressman Webster.

(26:01)
When Milton came over, it even spawned hurricanes over on the East Coast in Rep Mass district. So this had really started in August. Hurricane Debbie dumped an extraordinary amount of rainfall, 10 to 14 inches on the state, but the real damage came September 26 with Hurricane Helene. It roared up the Gulf bringing a record seven feet, eight inches of storm surge along the coast. So it has flooded out thousands of homes. It swamped the Coast Guard Air Station. It swamped MacDill Air Force Base. That's the home to special operations command and central command. It washed away the navigational channel markers for Port Tampa Bay. So fuel could not be delivered. A whole neighborhoods were ruined, businesses ruined. But then two weeks after that, on October 9th with some of our neighbors still in shelters, Hurricane Milton slammed into the state with wind speeds up to 105 miles per hour and a new record rainfall total of up to 18 inches in some areas that they said was a one in 1000 year flood event.

(27:17)
So if you survive the storm surge of Helene, it's likely that you were flooded out weeks later by Milton and many of the rivers took weeks to crest. There were widespread power outages for some people well over a week. This inhibited the ability of small businesses to bounce back. Many of them, these small business owners you know are just, they have a very limited range of what they can take. So when power was out, when fuel cannot be distributed, when we have police officers guarding gas stations, folks are really asking, there must be a better way. So here are a few recommendations on the aftermath and what I saw leading up to the catastrophes and the aftermath. The misinformation regarding FEMA was a real distraction. It was unnecessary. A lot of time was spent on combating that false information rather than encouraging people to sign up. Communities need to understand where the damage has occurred and people need those emergency funds right away.

(28:28)
I'm grateful for the federal resources and personnel that were surged into the region, including Administrator Criswell being there a couple of times, pre-positioning of resources, search and rescue, the medical assistance teams, but also the guarantee that debris could be cleaned up. Local communities, you would not believe the heartache and the cost of people having their lives out on the street. We've never seen anything like the scale of this. And to be able to say that FEMA is going to be there, the Congress is going to be there to help you clean up your communities is absolutely vital. The massive damage is going to require extensive rebuilding of homes and infrastructure across the area and Floridians are resilient. But the impact of these back-to-back monster storms is straining our local resources.

(29:21)
My neighbors are already spending more on property insurance than any other place in the country. Electric bills are out of sight. They need Congress now to follow through with help in helping them rebuild their lives. What ranking member Larsen highlighted as the Small Business Administration, there's so many homeowners and businesses that need to tap those low-interest loans. There's nowhere else to turn. You don't want them going on a credit card with those high interest rates to rebuild their lives. We've got to replenish the SBA fund right away. President Biden's proposal of a $98 billion disaster relief bill is good. It's robust, but the Congress now has to take the wheel and make sure that these dollars are getting to where they need to be.

(30:10)
I understand the large-scale water and wastewater rebuilding that has to go on in North Carolina, but it's also all across the state of Florida. They were swamped. They polluted our bays, rivers, the Gulf of Mexico, and we're a tourism economy. We cannot rebound with polluted waterways. We've got to be able now to build back stronger, build back in a more resilient way, one that protects the taxpayer dollars so we don't go through this time and time again.

(30:42)
And during widespread power outages, the traditional grid is destroyed. Like I highlighted, it took weeks in some places to get the power turned back on. We've got to be smarter about our electrical systems in this country and build in a more resilient way with micro grids, solar battery systems that can safeguard our critical infrastructure. We had hospitals lose power with patients inside. We had community health centers massively damaged. We had shelters where people were trying to stay safe and the power went out for weeks. We've got to do a better job making sure that these places are safe and resilient from these extreme weather events. I'll highlight a few other things in written testimony and answers to the committee, but thank you for inviting me to this important hearing today. The heating climate is costing us a lot, and we need to better adapt for our pocketbooks and for our people. Thank you very much for the chance to be here.

Chairman Perry (31:50):

Chair, thanks our witnesses. Are their questions? Mr. Graves.

Mr. Graves (31:58):

Don't have any questions. I just want to first of all tell you how much I appreciate your efforts on behalf of your constituents. I did have the opportunity to visit Western North Carolina with Congressman Chuck Edwards, and just so sorry for what happened to you and your constituents. I know that you're both working really hard to get them back on their feet. I want to thank you for your service and again, just know that we're praying for you all's folks, and really sorry that you all are having to go through this. Thank you.

Chairman Perry (32:28):

Others? All right. Seeing none. Thank you for being here today and thank you for your testimony and your comments. This concludes the first panel and I'll give you a couple minutes to go ahead and exit and we're going to introduce the second panel. Thank you.

Chairman Perry (34:39):

All right. Administrator Criswell, thanks for your patience here, and thanks for your service. I'm going to welcome you, as the FEMA Administrator, to our second panel. As a reminder, your written testimony has also been made part of the record, so the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks to five minutes. And with that, you are now recognized for that five minutes. Thank you.

Administrator Criswell (35:02):

I thank you, Chairman Perry, Ranking Member Titus, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify regarding FEMA's efforts in response to Hurricanes Helene and Milton. We value this committee's legislative support and oversight of our agency, and I really look forward to our conversation today. On September 26th, Hurricane Helene made landfall in Florida as a powerful, fast-moving Category 4 storm, with hurricane force winds extending 40 miles, and tropical storm force winds extending 310 miles from its center. Helene then entered Georgia as a Category 2 hurricane before becoming a powerful tropical storm that continued to release historic rainfall over already saturated soils as it marched through South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia. There were also impacts in West Virginia and Kentucky.

(36:03)
Helene's powerful winds and floodwaters altered landscapes and devastated communities in many places not accustomed to experiencing such storms. The destruction caused by Helene was catastrophic. Less than two weeks later, Hurricane Milton rapidly intensified into a Category 5 storm in the Gulf of Mexico. After making landfall in Florida as a Category 3, it moved across the state into the Atlantic, spurring a formation of tornadoes, and leaving an overlapping trail of destruction in many communities still reeling from Hurricane Helene and Debby. Many of these same communities were still recovering from Ian, Idalia and Debby from previous years.

(36:52)
Our hearts have been heavy with the stories of survivors we have encountered. People who lost their loved ones, their homes and their businesses. These two catastrophic storms led to the loss of over 200 lives and caused extensive damages to homes and neighborhoods across the impacted states. There was also widespread disruption of critical services across the Southeastern United States, including the obstruction of transportation routes, which isolated some homes and communities. FEMA's mission statement is a simple one, spelled out in seven powerful words. Helping people before, during, and after disasters.

(37:41)
And in my written testimony, I have provided a detailed account of FEMA's preparation, pre-positioning of assets and personnel, and coordination with other federal agencies in support of our state, local and tribal partners. I have described, in detail, how FEMA responded to these two storms across eight states, mobilizing the full weight of the federal government to help impacted areas that were not accustomed to this kind of disaster. Prioritizing search and rescue efforts, reopening roads to reconnect hard-to-reach areas, delivering essential food, water, and other supplies to residents, and restoring critical infrastructure. And I have described how FEMA is leading recovery efforts in the impacted states, doing everything we can to cut through red tape and expedite assistance to survivors.

(38:37)
This has been a challenging time for our workforce of over 22,000 dedicated, hard-working people, many of whom were also impacted by one of these storms themselves, and delayed their personal and family recovery to meet our mission and respond to the disaster. Our workforce persevered through all of the challenges I've just described, and they also persevered through a difficult security environment generated by misinformation about FEMA's work spread through social media. We help all survivors. All people obtain all of the assistance that they are qualified for under the law, and misinformation was making that work much more difficult.

(39:27)
I greatly appreciate the voices from members of Congress, from across both sides of the aisle, who attested to the work that FEMA was doing on the ground. So I was very concerned when I learned that a FEMA employee had given direction to her disaster survivor assistance team that were completely at odds with FEMA's mission. A critical function of these teams is to go door to door, meet with survivors, meet them where they are, make them aware of available FEMA resources, and help them register for assistance. This employee wrote to about 11 staffers under her supervision that they should, quote, avoid homes advertising Trump, end quote. My senior leadership team provided me with this visual evidence that the employee had, in fact, issued this statement, these instructions, and they recommended that this employee be terminated. I concurred and directed the termination, and the employee was fired.

(40:32)
I released a statement that day, and I will repeat what I said to all of my employees and the American people. This type of behavior and action will not be tolerated at FEMA, and we will hold people accountable if they violate our standards of conduct. I do not believe that this employee's actions are indicative of any widespread cultural problems at FEMA. FEMA, however, has taken appropriate action to ensure that this matter is fully investigated, and I am committed to ensuring that nothing like this ever happens again. In the meantime, we have sent a different team to the field to contact all of the homes that had been skipped over at this one employee's direction, and that work has been completed.

(41:24)
Now I know that this incident is on the minds of many members of this committee, and I will be happy to answer all of your questions about it. However, I hope that we will also have a chance to discuss the great work of our workforce, and responses to both Hurricanes Helene and Milton, as well as the important challenges that lie ahead in the recovery effort across these states. Thank you, again, for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to your questions.

Chairman Perry (41:55):

Thank you, Administrator, for your testimony. We'll now turn to questions from members. The chair recognizes himself for five minutes. Administrator, last week we sent a letter, signed by myself and all the committee's Republican members, to you about the recent allegations that you just mentioned. FEMA workers skipped the homes of supporters of the president-elect. Following the allegations, you issued a statement that one FEMA employee departed from FEMA's values and was terminated. However, she alleges those were the instructions from FEMA when she was deployed. She asserts that FEMA supervisors and leadership were aware and, independently, we've received reports of similar practices in places like North Carolina. Tell me about the investigation. Tell me about the investigation. Who's conducting it and has there been an IG investigation initiated by yourself or anybody in FEMA?

Administrator Criswell (42:54):

Chairman Perry, there is nothing in our policies, in our procedures, in our training that would direct any employee to bypass anybody's home based on their political party. I cannot speak to what her motivations were, but this came to my attention, again, on November 7th. I directed my team to get me information. They gave me factual information on November 9th, which is when I directed the termination of this employee. This first came to our Office of Professional Responsibility on October 28th through the team member from TSA who was working under this individual.

(43:33)
She immediately raised it to the Office of the Special Counsel who took the case as a potential violation of the Hatch Act. There were ongoing investigations with that, and the Office of Professional Responsibility is currently working with the IG to determine what the investigative matters will be, going forward. The IG has not, of yet, stated they want to investigate this, but I highly encourage them to take on this case, and look and see if this was a widespread issue or if this was just a single incident.

Chairman Perry (44:05):

So you're working with them and you've encouraged them, but you haven't requested they do so. Now according to your employee, Ms. Washington, who was asked, and this is a public report, these orders … she stated, "So you're telling me these orders came from somebody above." And she said, "Correct." So what has your investigation gleaned regarding her direct supervisors, the people above her? Have you questioned them and what have your answers been?

Administrator Criswell (44:37):

Chairman Perry, we do have an ongoing investigation, and we have questioned other personnel in this chain of command, and we find no information, at this point, that there was anything beyond her direction to her employees to skip and bypass a home.

Chairman Perry (44:54):

So the same employee alleged that the Florida team had already been avoiding Trump voters homes prior to her work there, and that this was, as she said, the culture. Now these aren't my words. These are the words from a FEMA employee who's claiming that she's being the scapegoat. She said, "But I'm just simply executing, again, what was coming down from my supervisors." How many supervisors does she have? How many people above her before she gets to you?

Administrator Criswell (45:30):

She is a crew lead, which is the lowest level of supervision.

Chairman Perry (45:33):

So there's a lot of people above her, so to speak, in the chain of command.

Administrator Criswell (45:37):

There are several people. I'd be happy to forward an organizational chart that would show where she sits within the organization.

Chairman Perry (45:44):

And your investigation has spoken to, certainly, the immediate and maybe two or three steps above that.

Administrator Criswell (45:51):

We have an ongoing investigation, Chairman Perry, to determine if there was any additional acts that violated our core values of compassion, fairness, integrity and respect. And at this time, we have found none.

Chairman Perry (46:03):

Okay. So I get there's an ongoing investigation, but this isn't a law enforcement thing where you can't say, "Well, we have an investigation, so we can't talk about it." You can talk about this. Does the investigation include her immediate supervisors and several steps above that?

Administrator Criswell (46:19):

The investigation includes those that were deployed in this particular incident, and we have found no evidence that there is anything beyond this one employee's specific direction.

Chairman Perry (46:30):

You found no evidence at this point. Let me ask you this. Now you can understand that, from America's perspective, certainly the people that weren't visited when FEMA was in town, that it would be in FEMA's best interest to just investigate this, internally, say this is a one-off employee, that this claim of hers that it's a culture is just her trying to kind of make sure that the responsibility or the accountability doesn't fall on her. Why shouldn't this be an independent investigation by, at least, somebody like the IG?

Administrator Criswell (47:08):

The actions that this employee took are unacceptable.

Chairman Perry (47:12):

I know that. You know that. We agree on that.

Administrator Criswell (47:13):

And I would welcome an investigation by the IG.

Chairman Perry (47:17):

But you haven't requested. Will you request one?

Administrator Criswell (47:19):

I will request one.

Chairman Perry (47:20):

Thank you. The chair now recognizes the gentle lady, the ranking member from Nevada, Ms. Titus.

Ms. Titus (47:31):

Thank you. I mentioned, in my opening statement, about how FEMA, in the new reality, has to deal with misinformation. And then you heard one of our witnesses. The Congress lady from Florida mentioned how it had been a problem as they tried to recover from the hurricanes. I wonder if you could talk to us about what kind of policy or official strategy you all might be developing to deal with misinformation, and how it does, indeed, hurt your attempts to get relief out to people who've been hit by these disasters?

Administrator Criswell (48:07):

Ranking Member Titus, we have experienced some level and type of misinformation, probably, throughout FEMA's history. We have a standard practice of standing up a rumor control page where we can put factual evidence out there, because part of it is we also have a lot of people that are trying to defraud those that have just lost so much, and pretending to be a federal agency, such as FEMA, to register even on their behalf. So we have had a standing practice of when we identify this information, of standing up some type of mechanism to ensure that the general public can get factual information from a validated government source. In this case, it would be our source.

(48:53)
But we continue to see this rise. We saw an increase in the amount of misinformation during the response to the Maui wildfires. But the amount of information and misinformation that we saw during the responses to Hurricanes Helene and Milton was at a scale that I had never seen before. And so, this requires us to now include, in our planning and preparedness, how we are going to be able to reach people. The goal is not necessarily to take down misinformation, but how do we ensure that people are getting actual correct information, so they're not afraid to reach out to their federal agency and apply for the assistance that they need, that they deserve, and that they're eligible for under the law.

Ms. Titus (49:34):

Did you provide this information in different languages and do you work with community leaders who can help you to get the information out? Just not elected officers, but church leaders or civic leaders.

Administrator Criswell (49:47):

We work in a number of ways. For example, during Maui we had one of our native Hawaiian employees develop a public security, safety announcement, and delivered that out through her own social media channels to let people, within her community, know that they could and should apply for assistance. I remember an opportunity during Hurricane Ida in Louisiana where we found a Vietnamese community, and we developed information in their native language, and sent it out through their channels, and it was one of our most watched videos on FEMA, so we could get them actual information about what resources were available for them.

(50:28)
We have a strong network, through our faith-based leadership team, to reach out to local faith leaders to help us get the information out to individuals and communities that may be apprehensive to try to reach out and apply for assistance. This is a team effort. It takes all of us, and this holistic approach, to be able to ensure anyone that was impacted by any natural disaster has access to the programs that we have, and that we remove the barriers for them receiving the critical assistance to start their recovery process.

Ms. Titus (51:02):

Thank you for that. GAO consistently reports that you all are drastically understaffed. We've tried to address that by having people be able to take time off and go back to their jobs to go and fight disasters. I think the most recent figure was 35% below what's needed, and we continue to put increasing demands on the agency. We point out how they fail to be there in a certain amount of time or not enough people on the ground or not fast enough. But if you don't have the people and the resources to do this work, what can you expect? So could you talk to us a little bit about how you're addressing those staffing challenges, and what we might do to be able to help you?

Administrator Criswell (51:46):

The number that we report on our daily operations brief, which has been in the news, as of late, showing that we had less than 5% of our personnel available, is one very specific part of our workforce and that's those that are solely responsible to deploy to disasters. Our disaster workforce. But we have a layered staff to approach when we have multiple events or catastrophic events like we experienced during Hurricanes Helene and Milton. We reach out to our steady state staff and we deploy them out into the field. We have our surge capacity force, which can bring in members from across the federal government that can go out into the field for 30 days. And we had over 800 members from across the federal government that went out into the communities to support them.

(52:35)
This type of layered staffing approach is what we plan for. We plan for multiple events like this. But we appreciate tools like the CREW Act, that was passed recently, that give us the flexibility to recruit more people into our reservists, our intermittent workforce, which are really the heart of what we do. And that's the workforce that we need to continue to focus on, because we don't need everybody every day, but given the amount of disasters that we are experiencing, this surge need, this surge availability of our intermittent, our reservist workforce, is critical to us being able to do the work.

Ms. Titus (53:10):

Thank you. Yield back.

Chairman Perry (53:12):

Chair. Thank you, gentle lady. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Louisiana, Representative Graves.

Mr. Graves (53:18):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Administrator, thank you for being here. I want to make note, Mr. Chairman, we've discussed hurricane … excuse me, Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton. We have not discussed Hurricane Francine. Administrator, I want to thank you for coming down to Louisiana for that, but I want to tell you why we are not talking about that today. We're not talking about that today, because the citizens of Lafourche and Terrebonne Parish, where that hurricane made landfall, imposed both a sales tax and a property tax on themselves, have invested nearly a billion dollars in building hurricane protection.

(53:47)
We are an interim phase of protection. We have built an 11-foot levee. Storm surge for hurricane Francine was 11 feet. If that levee had not been there, if we had not done what we did, we would be having a very different hearing today. Administrator, I want to ask you a quick question. There are rumors, reports, that FEMA is having discussions with Department of Treasury about using ARP funds, American Rescue Plan funds, to help out with recovery. Is that accurate?

Administrator Criswell (54:14):

So with the National Flood Insurance Program, at this moment, we are outpacing our payments. Over $800 million in payments from the National Flood Insurance Program. [inaudible 00:54:25]-

Mr. Graves (54:24):

So you all are having discussions about using American Rescue Plan funds for recovery?

Administrator Criswell (54:28):

We are not using American Rescue Plan-

Mr. Graves (54:30):

There's no discussions about doing that.

Administrator Criswell (54:32):

Not for FEMA using American Rescue Plan [inaudible 00:54:34].

Mr. Graves (54:34):

Okay. Okay, because there were reports that FEMA was having discussions about using those.

Administrator Criswell (54:37):

No.

Mr. Graves (54:37):

Okay. Thank you for clarifying. Now something else I'd like for you to clarify. There's been a lot of discussion about FEMA's Emergency Food and Shelter Program, and how it's handled. Number one. That's a FEMA program. Number two. That is funded with taxpayer dollars. And so, whenever folks say that, "Well, no, no, no, you got to understand, it's a different program." These are all taxpayer dollars, and what you do is you triage it or you prioritize what is needed, what's most important, and that's where we need to focus. I mean, do you agree with that?

Administrator Criswell (55:11):

The Shelter and Services Program is a program that was directed by Congress for FEMA to administer. Yes, at the cost of $800 million.

Mr. Graves (55:17):

Right. And so these are all federal taxpayer dollars, and so if we need taxpayer dollars in a higher priority area, it would make sense to take funds from a lower priority area. What I'm really struggling with is, as I understand, is that in North Carolina, for example, where I visited, you could have a flood or disaster victim that can get a check for $750. Yet when I go through and I look at the programs and resources that are available to a citizen of a different country that came illegally into the United States, under the FEMA administrative program, using nonprofits, you could be eligible for housing, for food, for transportation, for healthcare costs and others.

(55:53)
I was able to come, looking at the very documents that these nonprofits were using, I was able to get to a figure in excess of $10,000 for an individual, let me make note again, that is a citizen of a foreign country. How would I explain to a taxpayer that a taxpayer, a citizen of the United States, is eligible for $750, yet a citizen of a foreign country, under your agency, is still eligible for assistance of $10,000. How would I explain that to somebody?

Administrator Criswell (56:22):

Congressman, the resources that are available to people impacted by disasters are a variety of resources, and that $ 750 payment is just to cover those immediate needs. They are eligible for 42,500 in fiscal year '24 for housing assistance, and 42,500 for other needs assistance. Those are the programs that are available to people that were impacted by disasters.

Mr. Graves (56:48):

It's very clear that, today, and I just visited North Carolina just a few weeks ago, it's very clear, to me, that there are folks that are in need right now. The disparity that exists in that a citizen of a foreign country that broke the law and came here illegally is they can get a plane ticket paid for, they can get a hotel room paid for, I think 200 and something bucks a night, if I remember right in some of the areas of, maybe, around Midland, Texas, somewhere around there. Again, healthcare, food, clothing. We have citizens of our own country that I engaged in North Carolina, weeks and weeks after the disaster, that have some of those same needs. This is ridiculous. It really is.

(57:34)
And I understand that all of these decisions aren't yours, but Administrator, you understand the ridiculousness of this situation that we're not helping our own citizens, yet we're out there using our own taxpayer dollars when we have a debt right now of $35 trillion, as a nation, and we're helping out citizens of other countries, when we're not even meeting the fundamental needs of our own citizens. This really is an unacceptable situation, and I think if I were in your situation, yes, I understand you're asking for a hundred billion dollars, but I think that we should be looking and asking for reprogramming opportunities, because we've got to prioritize the limited resources that our nation has, and focus upon our own citizens. I yield back.

Chairman Perry (58:18):

Gentleman yields. The chair now recognizes the ranking member of the full committee, Mr. Larsen.

Mr. Larsen (58:24):

Thank you, Mr. chair. Just to, maybe, sum up. I heard you say, in the case of North Carolina, and probably in the case of Washington State, if something similar happened, someone would be eligible for up to $85,000 of aid. Is that what I heard you say? 42,5 plus 42,5.

Administrator Criswell (58:43):

Yes, sir. 42,500 for fiscal year '24. That went up in fiscal year '25. But that also does not include the amount that we pay to support people in hotels, the amount that we put into support people in manufactured housing units, or rent reimbursements, those do not come out of their 42,500.

Mr. Larsen (59:01):

And on the emergency shelter support program, did FEMA create that program?

Administrator Criswell (59:05):

That program was directed by Congress.

Mr. Larsen (59:07):

Congress created that program.

Administrator Criswell (59:08):

Congress created that program.

Mr. Larsen (59:09):

And told you to do it.

Administrator Criswell (59:10):

And asked me to do it, directed me to do it.

Mr. Larsen (59:12):

We don't ask you to do things.

Administrator Criswell (59:13):

Yeah, you don't.

Mr. Larsen (59:14):

We told you to do it. So it's really up to Congress to decide.

Administrator Criswell (59:17):

Congress directed FEMA to administer the legacy program of ESFP Humanitarian Assistance, and then the establishment of the [inaudible 00:59:25].

Mr. Larsen (59:24):

I got it. I think we just issue a mirror to every member Congress who complains to you about the emergency shelter program, so they can look at who's responsible for doing anything about it, which you're responsible for administering it, but you're not responsible for creating it.

Administrator Criswell (59:38):

Correct.

Mr. Larsen (59:40):

On the disaster relief. So it's a hundred billion dollars is the request, not a hundred million dollars. Yeah, with a B.

Administrator Criswell (59:47):

A hundred billion, 40 billion of which is FEMA's request.

Mr. Larsen (59:48):

40 billion, which is FEMA's request. And tell me why FEMA needs that supplemental funding, especially for a disaster relief fund, before the end of the year.

Administrator Criswell (01:00:00):

We were given the ability to spend against the fiscal year '25 budget with the continuing resolution, which was just over $20 billion. We went into that with a negative, because we had paused close to $9 billion in payments, through our Immediate Needs Funding, for fiscal year '24. So the first bills that we paid were those recovery projects in communities across the United States. In Hurricane Helene and Milton, those costs are expensive, and the cost to respond to these two disasters is outpacing all other disasters in the previous 10 years, except for Hurricane Maria. And so that is-

Mr. Larsen (01:00:41):

And I don't want to diminish the importance of Helene and Milton, but in that $9 billion, some of that money went into places that weren't in the Southeast or Appalachia, because of outstanding disaster recovery requests. Is that right?

Administrator Criswell (01:00:58):

Over 3000 recovery projects across the United States we were not able to reimburse while we were in Immediate Needs Funding.

Mr. Larsen (01:01:07):

And so, that was the 20 billion, and now you're spending the 11 billion plus that which you need otherwise, because of Helene and Milton, and because of the other outstanding requests that Congress hasn't funded since October '23 in the last supplemental disaster request. Is that right?

Administrator Criswell (01:01:27):

We have been very transparent with Congress about what the health of the DRF is and anticipated a shortage going into fiscal year '24, as well as fiscal year '25. We have put forth two supplemental requests in fiscal year '24, neither which were allowed. And so, we find ourselves in a situation-

Mr. Larsen (01:01:46):

Neither of which were passed.

Administrator Criswell (01:01:47):

Were passed.

Mr. Larsen (01:01:48):

Yeah, right. Yeah. No, we're allowed to pass them. We chose, as a congress, not to, which is again … again, for some of this, we need to be looking at ourselves, but for some of these things we need to be looking at you. For instance, on individual assistance, a universal application is a for instance. We want to get Representative Titus and Representative Graves bill passed, so there's a universal application instead of having to fill out several applications just to get … it's like trying to fund a road. We got to go for five, six different grants to get a road funded in transportation rather than just get the one pot of money to do this. And for someone who's in a situation where they're trying to find a place to live, because of a disaster, we need to cut down on the time and on the paperwork that they have to do to get access to this. So can you talk a little bit about the need for a universal application?

Administrator Criswell (01:02:42):

Yeah. The Disaster Survivors Fairness Act, we really appreciate the efforts that have gone forth with this, because it gives us a lot of flexibilities. It allows us to do direct repair to homes, but the other piece is about the universal application. We want to reduce the burden that these individuals are facing after they have just experienced, probably, the worst day in their life. And so, to be able to make it easier on them is the goal of the universal application.

Mr. Larsen (01:03:07):

I want to just conclude by talking a little bit about the politics of the situation, and I condemn what this employee did, as well. And playing politics with disaster aid hurts Americans. It hurts all of us, especially when they needed the government most. And so, it's troubling that even the president-elect said he would deny disaster aid to California if the governor there doesn't listen to him. And at an event September, the president-elect said that the governor of California is going to sign those papers. If he doesn't sign those papers related to California water policy, he won't get money to put out all the fires, and we won't give him the money to put out fires, and then he's got problems. It's not the first time he's done something like this.

(01:03:44)
And, in 2019, the president-elect tweeted, "Billions of dollars are being sent to the state of California for forest fires that, with proper forest management, would never happen. Unless they get their act together, which is unlikely, I have ordered FEMA to send no more money." The point I want to make is that it's up to this committee to responsibly hold anyone accountable who is seeking to politicize disaster aid. From a crew leader at FEMA to the president-elect or the president, none of this is acceptable, and we have a responsibility to hold everyone accountable for these comments that get in the way of getting disaster aid to people. And with that, I yield back.

Chairman Perry (01:04:23):

Chair. Thanks to the gentleman. The chair now recognizes the representative from Mississippi, Mr. Ezell.

Mr. Ezell (01:04:29):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you Administrator Criswell for being here today. A few months ago, you agreed to consider the flood maps, fully funded by the Mississippi State Legislature, and implemented by the Southern Mississippi Planning and Development District. I appreciate your commitment, and as so many of my constituents are suffering due to FEMA's outdated, inaccurate flood maps. Last month I hosted a roundtable on this issue, and was pleased to hear that your staff is working, in good faith, with district stakeholders. I'll give credit where credits due. However, as we've discussed today, the recent reports of one of your staffers intentionally withholding federal aid, solely on political preference, is beyond unacceptable and dramatically increases the political divide in our country.

(01:05:21)
Unfortunately, we could keep hammering this point, but today I'm not here to … I want to focus on something else, some of the things going on in my district. One of my goals, as a congressman, is to improve the efficiency of FEMA. During my first term, I have engaged with Region 4 regarding the dozens of projects in my district, from the Gulf Coast to the Pine Belt, that have drug out far too long without a resolution or, in some cases, even without a clear update. These includes projects throughout Biloxi, Gulfport, Long Beach, Pass Christian, Bay St. Louis, Waveland and Hattiesburg. Here's a timeline of events that my staff and I have discussed with your team at Region 4. Administrator Criswell, this upcoming August will be 20 year anniversary for Hurricane Katrina. 20 years. That's nearly two decades. The city of Biloxi is still waiting on some of their infrastructure projects. How, 20 years later, are there still unresolved projects from Katrina?

Administrator Criswell (01:06:29):

Congressman, recovery is very complicated and every project has its own unique situation. I'm happy to look into the specific projects that you are most concerned about.

Mr. Ezell (01:06:39):

Thank you for that. As you can see, this is pretty hard to defend. 20 years. 20 years is a long time waiting on to get some infrastructure projects fixed, which have been funded. Another answer I hope you can clarify for me today. If an applicant identifies an error or omission in the original cost estimate, do you believe FEMA may increase funding for an improve project? Yes or no?

Administrator Criswell (01:07:08):

Congressman, I would have to understand the specifics of that to be able to answer it accurately.

Mr. Ezell (01:07:13):

If an applicant identifies an error or an omission in the original cost estimate, do you believe FEMA may increase funding for an improve project?

Administrator Criswell (01:07:23):

Again, Congressman, without understanding the specifics of that project, I don't have an accurate answer.

Mr. Ezell (01:07:27):

Okay. I'll just move on. I'll take that as a no. According to FEMA, this project, and this is in Biloxi and Waveland … Biloxi. Correction. According to FEMA, this project has not been finished, because it was not accurately estimated. But I have, in writing, a letter from FEMA, right here, that the most recent CEF, in 2019, accurately reflected the complexity of the project. Can you follow up with this letter and we'll make sure that you get it, that FEMA has already

Mr. Ezell (01:08:00):

… confirmed and direct your staff to fund the project at the cost accurately reflected.

Administrator Criswell (01:08:07):

Congressman, I'd be happy to follow up on that specific project.

Mr. Ezell (01:08:10):

Thank you very much. I take that as a yes.

(01:08:12)
The second project that I'd like to raise with you today is the Waveland Mississippi Pier. In October, I learned that the original reason why this project was not funded was because of the scope of the work had changed. However, the city has told me the project has not changed since day one of the disaster. Now I'm hearing the original project reflected what the city says, but your agency claims it should not have. So now we're kind of back to step one. This stuff just gets so confusing. Our people just don't know which way to go sometimes.

(01:08:51)
So what's it going be? Was the mitigation work never included to begin with, or did FEMA include this work by mistake? Again, confusing. We get one answer from you sometimes and we try to go along with it and things just keep changing until it gets so confusing until nobody really knows what to do.

(01:09:12)
So we got to get this figured out, as we can see how this creates so much uncertainty and confusing the people who are trying to navigate through the process, because Waveland's got issues going on right now.

(01:09:26)
My staff and I have worked tirelessly to try to work some of these things out with FEMA, but still, if you look at 20 years of projects from Katrina that have been funded, that have not been completed, and again, I don't want to keep beating the drum about what one employee said or what may be the policy, but I truly hope that the lack of funding these projects isn't due to Mississippi being a red state.

(01:09:52)
And with that Mr. Chairman… With being said, I need a commitment from you today that you'll look into all these projects, that they will be handled and that my constituents will get the help that they need back home.

Administrator Criswell (01:10:06):

Congressman, you have my commitment that we will look into all of those projects, and you have my absolute determination that we do not discriminate against any state. We provide support for everyone impacted by disasters.

Mr. Ezell (01:10:24):

And we appreciate that. But when you're looking at 20 years from Katrina, we should not be having this discussion. So thank you very much. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Chairman Perry (01:10:35):

The Chair thanks the gentlemen. The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Washington D.C., Representative Norton.

Ms. Norton (01:10:43):

Thank you. Mr. Chairman. Climate change has fueled an alarming rise in the number and severity of natural disasters, with once in a century storms becoming a matter of course. It is critical to continue to invest in our emergency management workforce to respond to these increasing emergencies and help rebuild affected communities. Yet the government accounting office found that in recent years, FEMA has been significantly understaffed. Administrator Criswell, what actions should Congress take to train, expand and retain FEMA's emergency management workforce?

Administrator Criswell (01:11:42):

Congresswoman Norton, our workforce is the heart and soul of what we do. These are often people that I have talked to that have been disaster survivors themselves and have chosen to come work for FEMA because they wanted to be able to give back like they received assistance when they were impacted. We appreciate the passage of the CREW Act that was instrumental in allowing us the flexibilities to have a more diverse and expansive workforce through our intermittent workers of our reservists, giving them the ability to keep a full-time job yet deploy when needed to come support people that have been impacted by disasters.

(01:12:20)
I encourage you to continue to reach out to your communities and have them reach out to FEMA. We often hire local hires in communities who turn into our reservists, our core employees, or our full-time employees. And we appreciate Congress's continued support of our workforce, making sure that they have all of the tools and the resources they need to continue to do the critical work of helping people before, during, and after disasters.

Ms. Norton (01:12:46):

Thank you. Administrator Criswell, what would be the impact on communities and disaster survivors if Congress does not pass Disaster Supplemental Appropriation Bill?

Administrator Criswell (01:13:17):

Our current balance within the Disaster Relief Fund is just under $5 billion. We went into immediate needs funding earlier this year in August when we reached a $3 billion mark. We expect without a supplemental that we will have the need to go back into immediate needs funding within the next few weeks without a supplemental.

(01:13:38)
What that means is we will continue to support the life-saving, life-sustaining work, especially what's going on in Western North Carolina in all of the states impacted by hurricanes Helene, and Milton. But we have to pause the reimbursement to communities that are rebuilding.

(01:13:54)
FEMA reimburses communities as they rebuild and their critical infrastructure. Many of these small rural communities often can't move on to the next project until they get reimbursed from the one that they're waiting for. And so this has a significant impact on a community's ability to have an effective recovery when they don't have the cash flow because they're waiting for the federal government to reimburse them for what they're eligible for under the disaster declaration.

Ms. Norton (01:14:23):

I commend you and FEMA's thousands of staff from across the country who left their homes to deploy to communities in need and provide them with assistance in the face of destruction, trauma, and loss. And I urge the House to bring a disaster supplemental appropriations bill to the floor immediately. And I yield back Mr. Chairman

Chairman Perry (01:14:49):

The Chair thanks the gentlelady. The Chair now recognizes the representative from Utah, Representative Malloy.

Ms. Maloy (01:14:56):

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Administrator Criswell, I've been sitting here listening to some of my colleagues talk about how FEMA is battling underfunding and under staffing and misinformation, and I just want it noted that I think the willingness of the public to believe information is a symptom of distrust of federal agencies, and being here and answering questions and addressing these problems is probably the best thing we can do to battle misinformation.

(01:15:27)
If FEMA employees are making political decisions that they shouldn't make and being fired for it, and we're talking about it here, I think that'll help.

(01:15:37)
And then as far as funding and staffing issues, they've got to be at least partly caused by deploying FEMA to non-Stafford Act events. And as a member of the legislative branch, I have a responsibility as a member of this committee to exercise oversight of FEMA. And one of the things that we have to look into is whether FEMA is understaffed and underfunded, or if they're outside of their mission.

(01:16:00)
I think it's critical as a member of Congress that we hold agencies accountable to be doing the things they're authorized by Congress, and only the things they're authorized to do by Congress. So with those observations, I'm going to yield the remainder of my time to Mr. Graves to continue his line of questioning from earlier.

Mr. Graves (01:16:19):

Thank you very much Ms. Malloy. I appreciate it. Administrator, I want to get something clear here. I mean, I understand you're saying that there's $42,500 in programs that are available. Let me say it again. There's still $10,000, and maybe even more available for citizens of illegal countries that have come here illegally from other countries that are not citizens of the United States. So I don't think that we reconcile by saying that, "Oh yeah, but they could potentially be eligible for this much." There still is $10,000 or more that we're potentially giving to people that broke the law that are citizens of other countries that came to the United States illegally.

(01:16:56)
I understand what Mr. Larson said, Ranking Member Larson said, but the reality is you're the administrator of this agency. You're the one who prepares the budget request that ask for these funds, and you're the one who is sitting here now saying, "We need a $100 billion more."

(01:17:09)
I think it's appropriate in this case to reprioritize funds and say, "This isn't an appropriate use of taxpayer funds under the fact that we're facing a $35 trillion debt."

(01:17:20)
One of the other issues, the Inspector General report came out just in August, said in excess of $70 billion in unliquidated assets, unliquidated obligations dating back to Hurricane Katrina, 2005, are still out there and aren't being used. Why can't those funds be tapped and get the resources out to the people that need them right now?

Administrator Criswell (01:17:41):

Congressman, again, the Shelter and Services Program was directed by Congress for FEMA to administer. The funding for that program was given to CBP and directed by Congress to be transferred to FEMA to administer that program, and we are administrating it in accordance with the law at the direction of Congress. As far as the programs and the funds that you are talking about as it relates to unobligated projects dating back to Hurricane Katrina, we consistently review all of the projects that are out there. Projects are obligated at what they expect the cost to be, and we are always reviewing to see which funds are no longer going to be needed because the estimates came in lower, and bringing those back in. We provide this in detail to Congress on a monthly basis on what those recoupments are.

Mr. Graves (01:18:28):

Thank you, Administrator. Look, last thing I want to say is that I'm very concerned about this prejudice about the Trump signs. I've seen other policies coming out of FEMA that I believe also are prejudiced. You and I have had discussions about some of those and I look forward to getting to the bottom of this. I yield remaining time to the Chair.

Chairman Perry (01:18:42):

Who'd you yield to? Okay.

Ms. Maloy (01:18:42):

I'll take the remainder of my time and yield it to the Chairman.

Chairman Perry (01:18:58):

Administrator, just to follow up on my friend from Louisiana here, look, you're an American citizen Shelter and Services Program. We get it, we agree. Look, not something I would vote for, but it happened and you have the job of administering it, but you're an American citizen. You see illegal foreign nationals receiving money in the tune of billions of dollars in this administration alone, while your own citizens in your own country, dealing with an agency for which you work, and are being criticized right now because they're not getting the money. Have you requested a reprogramming of this money?

(01:19:35)
I understand it's been thrown in your lap. I get it. Not something I agreed with, but it's in your lap. But you see it. Have you requested a reprogramming of the money?

Administrator Criswell (01:19:44):

This is funding, Chairman, that we were directed to administer by Congress. We are administering it at the direction of Congress.

Chairman Perry (01:19:51):

And you have no interest in reprogramming it?

Administrator Criswell (01:19:53):

This is funding that was directed to us to administer.

Chairman Perry (01:19:56):

I understand, but you're a citizen too. You're working here. So do you see this as a misalignment of priorities when you're asking for more money, maybe rightly so, asking for more personnel, knowing that millions, hundreds of millions, billion dollars sent to people here illegally while people, the citizens of this country, for which the administration and the organization that you work is supposed to be there for them, aren't receiving that money. Do you have any interest in requesting a reprogramming of that funding?

Administrator Criswell (01:20:28):

This is funding that was given to CBP and directed by Congress to transfer to FEMA to administer the Shelter and Service.

Chairman Perry (01:20:35):

Yes, ma'am. I understand that and I guess I get your answer. I would just say this in support of this organization called the Cajun Navy, people are frustrated and upset with FEMA's response, maybe rightly so, maybe not rightly so.

(01:20:48)
But it seems to me that this nonprofit known as the Cajun Navy can get in the game immediately, make changes on the fly that impact people's lives. They don't have to go through a bunch of red tape and cry, "We don't have people, we don't have money." They get people and equipment to the site on time and make a difference. And quite honestly, that's what FEMA should be doing.

(01:21:11)
So maybe FEMA should go talk to the Cajun Navy and say, "Why can't we do what you're doing? What do we got to change here to do that?"

(01:21:17)
With that I yield and I now recognize the gentleman from California, Representative Garamendi.

Mr. Garamendi (01:21:28):

No, Mr. Chairman, I'm not going to take the bait. I think she identified the problem, however, it's us. If you have a problem, what the CBP is doing in transferring the responsibility to FEMA, well, why don't you write the bill?

(01:21:47)
Now, let me move on to what I really want to get to here. Yes, there is a shortfall of funding. I think it's been discussed multiple times here. In that funding program, or the shortfall, there is a question about unpaid obligations. We've heard about 20 years ago with Katrina, but there are some that are much more recent. Specifically the COVID response in '21/'22, there was a federal program authorized in the American Rescue Plan that hospitals and other agencies were directed to provide services and FEMA programs would reimburse them. You've made good effort on reimbursing them as far as the money would go. Still about 40% of the money, specifically to hospitals in California and other states have yet to be paid.

(01:22:50)
In the that you're requesting, do you intend to use some of that supplemental money to pay for those obligations that were incurred by public agencies, hospitals specifically, so that they would be reimbursed? You're at 60%. There's another 40% to go.

Administrator Criswell (01:23:14):

Congressman, part of our supplemental request does include the anticipated cost to reimburse jurisdictions, hospitals, and other eligible entities for the cost that they incurred through COVID-19. For the hospital specifically, we are undergoing an extensive review with a third party to make sure that we're not duplicating funding that they already received. We feel that this is an important step to ensure that we're using the taxpayer dollars to support the actual needs and not duplicating payments that they may have received from other sources or from insurance, et cetera.

(01:23:48)
And so both of those will work in unison. As we continue to review the submissions from hospitals, we validate that the costs have not been paid by another source. This supplemental request will include then reimbursing those jurisdictions, those hospitals, those entities for those costs.

Mr. Garamendi (01:24:03):

I really like your yes-but answer. Normally we don't like the but part, but I'm pleased to hear that FEMA is auditing and also very carefully looking into these payments. I'm confident that you won't find a problem in California. I say that with certainty. However, nonetheless, it's important that you do the audits and that you make sure that… And applies to other programs also, some of those that may date back 20 years or more. So thank you for doing that.

(01:24:36)
I will note that the California Hospital Association believes that there's 1.3 billion that would be appropriately owed to California. However, check to be sure.

(01:24:49)
Moving on, there are other issues that are also in play, some of which are really important in small communities, and I want to thank you for a change that you've made in your policies of prior funding for very small projects across mostly small communities, some urban, some rural.

(01:25:10)
I believe it's at a $1 million level. That might have enough money to get a large culvert repaired. I would ask you to take a look at that and probably better to add a zero. And once again, the, "but," part of your answer, really important here. So if you're going to put money out ahead of the normal process of reimbursement, good, it's necessary. The many small communities, counties, cities simply cannot front the money for three, four years before they get reimbursed. However, a million dollars is a good step, add a zero and you're probably at a level that would allow those communities to get their projects underway. I want to thank you for your courage.

(01:26:02)
I want to thank you for your standing tall and honest about the incredible pressure that you've received from the two recent hurricanes and from those that have… and other disasters that have been declared. You have an incredibly difficult job, and you are leading in a way that is exemplary.

(01:26:28)
With that, I yield back. Oh, by the way, I got 11 seconds. Mr. Chairman, if we got a problem with illegals getting money, I look forward to your bill.

Chairman Perry (01:26:40):

You might see it there Mr. Garamendi. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Louisiana to make a request.

Mr. Graves (01:26:46):

Mr. Chairman asking, I was [inaudible 01:26:47] include in the record November 18th, letter from United Cajun Navy official Brian Thrasher, that includes observations from Todd Terrell, Sarah Galliano, and others related to Hurricane Milton and-

Chairman Perry (01:27:00):

Without objection, so ordered. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York, Representative Molinaro.

Mr. Molinaro (01:27:05):

Thank you Mr. Chairman, and thank you administrator. I want to just take issue with… this could be my last five minutes on this committee, so I'm going to take all four minutes, 10 seconds.

(01:27:18)
My colleague across the aisle, with all due respect, offered what is by far the easiest and most disingenuous argument. You administer the one department in domestic policy that has to triage and set priorities, your department. And in a case of a declared emergency, either as it affords itself under the Stafford Act, or by some extension by the president, or your own determination, you are empowered, and your department is empowered to decide what of the programs you are running today should take precedent or priority over the others.

(01:27:52)
Yes, sure. What can pass a law that limits the Shelter and Services funding, that stops dollars to getting to illegal immigrants. But you have to make that decision every day. It's the only department in the federal government that empowers you to do so.

(01:28:04)
My colleague Mr. Graves said somewhat earlier that you have to agree that it is absurd for Americans in the South, having now faced what is by far among the worst emergencies to befall our country, that they see those who are placed here, illegal immigrants placed here by their federal government, they see the not-for-profits you engage with handing out ease of access dollars, while they have to struggle to get first to 750.

(01:28:33)
I administered emergency response for 20 years at the county level. Believe me, there's a lot of improvements and coordination that FEMA must engage in. But do you see the absurdity? Because I haven't heard an answer that suggests it. Do you see the absurdity that American citizens are getting their 750, and then yes, struggling through a very complicated process to meet the thresholds necessary to get the aid they need to have housing, food, and shelter, while your agency is contracting with not-for-profits to easily hand out access to those who are placed here illegally. Do you see the absurdity?

Administrator Criswell (01:29:10):

Congressman, our mission is to support people, help people before, during, and after disasters and [inaudible 01:29:15] priority decisions-

Mr. Molinaro (01:29:17):

Do you think, ma'am, in responding to an emergency, the priority of government ought to be to ensure that American citizens are triaged, and that the services of FEMA are focused on responding to them and their service programs first?

Administrator Criswell (01:29:33):

I absolutely believe that the services that FEMA provides should be supporting the people that have been impacted by disasters.

Mr. Molinaro (01:29:40):

Should there be equity in that distribution and response? Should there be fairness in that response?

Administrator Criswell (01:29:45):

We should make sure that all people have access to our programs and that we remove the barriers-

Mr. Molinaro (01:29:50):

Fair enough. So this is my time and I get four minutes, two minutes to do it. So in fairness, do you not see the inequity in those placed here illegally having taxpayers support a plane ticket, a house, a hotel, food, cell phones, access to healthcare; do you not see the inequity that they have access immediately? I want us to be a welcoming nation, but if we cannot respond to those who are living in emergencies, then we do not have the right to claim that we are the Federal Emergency Management Administration. Do you not see the inequity?

Administrator Criswell (01:30:22):

Congress directed-

Mr. Molinaro (01:30:23):

No, Congress established law. You have to prioritize triage and decide. During COVID, there were federal agencies and local governments who were responsible for providing lots of services. We said, "In this emergency, you're not going to do that." We told federal employees, "Get back out onto the ground because you've got to respond to a public health pandemic." And most of them were never involved in health response. You established the priority. Why can you not say today that the priority ought to have been to make sure that American citizens were getting first response, adequate response, and not distracted response. Why can't you not say that?

Administrator Criswell (01:31:00):

Our priority is the American people and we administered our disaster programs-

Mr. Molinaro (01:31:06):

And you will not admit to or acknowledge the inequities? I'm not trying to be combative. This is absurd.

(01:31:13)
Today when you spent some time, and my colleagues talk about misinformation first, misinformation is freedom of speech, whether it's true or not. But you know what fuels misinformation? The inequity that FEMA has engaged in, because it allows for people to assume, whether true or not, a level of either incompetence, inefficiency, or lack of concern for those who are struggling the most when they see individuals enter this country illegally and then are transported here and receiving services. And you know that it is easier to access the Shelter and Services funding than it is to access disaster relief aid, housing assistance, small business aid, you know that it's more complicated. Doesn't that in and of itself fuel the misinformation?

Administrator Criswell (01:31:59):

Congressman, we are administering that program as directed by Congress.

Mr. Molinaro (01:32:04):

You are not administering the program as directed by Congress. We established the law, we establish the provisions, and we expect the person, whether it's the president or the administrator of FEMA to decide what is and is not priority in response to emergency. And by that very measure, with all due respect, the agency has failed. And it has lost focus. My time is up. I yield back to the Chairman.

Chairman Perry (01:32:30):

The Chair thanks the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Oregon, Representative Hoyle.

Ms. Hoyle (01:32:40):

Thank you Mr. Chair, and thank you for being here today. A few things. We have a lot of fires, ice storms, floods that have gotten more and more severe this year. We've had 1.9 million acres of land that was burnt with fires, and that is over twice the ten-year average. But as things are getting hotter and drier and climate is getting more extreme, some of my colleagues want to argue about why. But what I want to say is the fact of the matter is FEMA is set up for when natural disasters happened every once in a while, maybe every six months. And so you have a lot of temporary Stafford Act employees. Is it true that four-fifths of your employees are in that temporary Stafford Act category?

Administrator Criswell (01:33:41):

Ma'am, can you repeat the number that you said?

Ms. Hoyle (01:33:43):

Four-fifths. My understanding is 20,000 out of your 25,000 employees are in that. Is that-

Administrator Criswell (01:33:48):

I believe that would be high. I believe about half of our workforce, maybe a little bit more than half, are direct employees out of the Disaster Relief Fund, and support disasters directly. The rest support our steady state missions.

Ms. Hoyle (01:34:02):

Okay, so half of your employees, and the fact is this has become a full-time job. I represent a lot of rural communities. I've never seen a difference between how FEMA treats my rural conservative areas and my more blue areas. And it seems like you had an employee that acted inappropriately, unethically in an untrustworthy manner, and then lied about who apparently, according to the facts that we know so far, lied about who was responsible for that, right?

Administrator Criswell (01:34:38):

We had a single employee that took actions that were unacceptable by directing her team to avoid homes.

Ms. Hoyle (01:34:46):

Right. I just think that if you have an employee that acts in an unethical manner, it follows that maybe they're not telling the truth. But again, I've never seen any difference.

(01:35:05)
And I'm going to go on to a different subject because I do represent Oregon. We had 23 fires in mid-July at the same time, earlier than we'd ever had fires. 23 incident command centers just following a massive ice storm. We had floods. We have our rangeland, our ranchers, our farms that were burnt. Now we have a mix of federal, and state, and private land. And our governor has asked for President Biden to approve a major disaster declaration for wildfire and storm damage between July 10th and September 7th.

(01:35:54)
Our requests include public assistance for our six frontier counties, Gillam, Grant, Jefferson, Umatilla Wasco, and Wheeler. Hazard mitigation grant programs to support projects that reduce the impact of future disasters, and a state cost-sharing waiver waiving the state's cost for emergency work in response to this disaster. This has been the most expensive fire season ever, and what it seems like is FEMA is looking at each of these fires individually when really what we would like to see is for all of these to be taken together because that's how we had to manage it.

(01:36:39)
And if you have to get back to me, I understand because this isn't a committee hearing on this, but when can the state reasonably expect a response to the disaster declaration request? We have our farmers and ranchers that are really, really struggling, have lost everything, and they really need this help.

Administrator Criswell (01:37:03):

Congresswoman, we did receive that request from the governor, I believe on October 21st. And I recognize and know how important this is to you. I will certainly go back and follow up with my team to see where it's at in the process, and we'll get back with your staff.

Ms. Hoyle (01:37:18):

And then the disaster declaration process often feels slow to affected communities. And we've had this, again, blue and red districts, and I do think that your agency has a giant job and doesn't necessarily always have the resources to do it.

(01:37:35)
How can FEMA streamline the steps between the agency receiving a disaster declaration and submitting a recommendation to the president?

Administrator Criswell (01:37:46):

The biggest thing that we see is really at the capacity of the state and local level and whether or not they have the resources to be able to quickly and effectively determine the amount of damage and submit that paperwork. We've been increasing our support by putting what we call FEMA integration team members and embedding staff right with state offices, so they can assist with that process. We have 10 regions and a regional administrator over each of them that have great relationships with the state directors and work very closely with them to help them understand what the steps are, where they need to go, and to work through and provide technical assistance as needed.

Ms. Hoyle (01:38:25):

We're over time. What I will say is these are cash-strapped rural counties that lost a lot of their economic engine when the timber industry crashed. So they're doing the best they can, but what I would say is we really need to figure out how to get these answers quicker. And thank you for your response.

Administrator Criswell (01:38:46):

Happy to work with you on that.

Chairman Perry (01:38:47):

The gentlelady yields. The Chair now recognizes Representative Stauber.

Mr. Stauber (01:38:53):

Thank you very much, administrator. Thanks for being here today. And also thanks for your service in the Colorado National Guard. I appreciate that.

(01:39:01)
I also appreciate your willingness to tell us, and you've been in several committee hearings, to talk about how you let that employee go who weaponized the federal government. The federal government has been weaponized against the American people. This is case in point. I think you did your job, and I think you did it well. You terminated that employee who weaponized the federal government as quickly as you can, and I think we need to do more of that.

(01:39:32)
With that being said, your mission statement is helping people before, during, and after disasters. When you were in the Colorado National Guard, did you have annual reviews?

Administrator Criswell (01:39:43):

Did I have what?

Mr. Stauber (01:39:44):

Annual reviews?

Administrator Criswell (01:39:46):

I was a traditional guard member. I wouldn't have had a-

Mr. Stauber (01:39:48):

Well, you'd still have annual reviews, okay? Outstanding, meets standards, and does not meet standards. Would that be fair enough?

Administrator Criswell (01:39:57):

As I recall.

Mr. Stauber (01:39:58):

Okay, so if you were in the Colorado National Guard and you were in charge of disasters in Colorado and the TAG said you are responsible, and there was a major disaster that the National Guard had to be brought out in Colorado, and it took three days for you to deploy, and five days to even get into some neighborhoods, would the TAG say that's acceptable for you as the leader of the management team… Emergency management team?

Administrator Criswell (01:40:31):

Congressman, FEMA was on the ground before the disaster happened.

Mr. Stauber (01:40:37):

We had two members of Congress that represent 778,000 people, stood here or sat here just within the hour and said there were people that didn't even get responded to for three days, and some in a week. So that contradicts what you just said.

(01:40:59)
I'm asking you, if you were in Colorado, what would the TAG do to you if you didn't respond for three days to the citizens of Colorado in a disaster?

Administrator Criswell (01:41:08):

Well Congressman-

Mr. Stauber (01:41:10):

Would he be upset with you? Would she or he be upset with you?

Administrator Criswell (01:41:13):

Congressman, our teams were on the ground before the disaster happened-

Mr. Stauber (01:41:16):

Ma'am, with all due respect, I'm not asking… Ma'am, I'm not asking that question. I'm not asking that question. I asked you, would the TAG be disappointed in you if it took you three days to help the citizens of Colorado or some neighborhood?

Administrator Criswell (01:41:28):

I think the Adjutant General of Colorado would be impressed with the way FEMA responded to this disaster.

Mr. Stauber (01:41:33):

Ma'am, I'm trying to help you here. I understand you have a tough job. I want you to be able to tell the American people that we could have done better. And as a traditional Guardsman, I totally respect your service, and I expect honesty, and you should expect honesty from my questioning.

(01:41:53)
I asked you, would the TAG be upset with you if you didn't send your

Mr. Stauber (01:42:00):

… people into a disaster in Colorado for three days. Three days. And sometimes some neighborhoods didn't get it for five. Would the tag be upset with you?

Administrator Criswell (01:42:08):

Well, that information is inaccurate and I would hope he would look for accurate information.

Mr. Stauber (01:42:12):

Ma'am, how would you score yourself in this response to Helene?

Administrator Criswell (01:42:19):

I think that there is always-

Mr. Stauber (01:42:20):

Would you score yourself outstanding? Would you score yourself outstanding, meets standards or does not meet standards?

Administrator Criswell (01:42:29):

… I am incredibly proud of the work that the 22,000 members of this workforce have done to support the American people across six states impacted by one of the most catastrophic events in recent years.

Mr. Stauber (01:42:41):

Administrator, we had two members of Congress that would challenge you on that statement. The American citizens needed you at the time. They needed you and they're still needing you, for three days. We had a major disaster in Minnesota. We had a governor for three days that watched Minneapolis burn. That's unacceptable. Simply unacceptable. And I would just hope that as we go forward… I don't want to politicize this. There's enough, but your response, you're the leader, the buck stops with you. From the testimony I heard here from the representatives of the people, it was disappointing. Do you think you could have done better?

Administrator Criswell (01:43:24):

I encourage you, Congressman, to read my written testimony, which describes in detail how we were on the ground before the disaster happened, and I respect the testimony of the two panel members earlier.

Mr. Stauber (01:43:34):

Do you think you could have done better?

Administrator Criswell (01:43:36):

We can always improve and we will review all our response efforts.

Mr. Stauber (01:43:41):

Is that a yes?

Administrator Criswell (01:43:42):

Nobody is perfect, Congressman. We can always improve and we strive to always improve on the way we deliver our services.

Mr. Stauber (01:43:47):

Do you think you could have done better though? Yes?

Administrator Criswell (01:43:49):

We can always do better.

Mr. Stauber (01:43:50):

Okay. Listen, I want to thank you for your service. It's not easy, but when we come and ask you questions, we just expect… This is a dialogue. You represent us, the people, and if it happens in Minnesota, I would expect you to be there as quickly as I can. And I would say that from the statements of the two representatives, both a Democrat and Republican, you could have done much better in the response. And I yield back.

Chairman Perry (01:44:20):

Gentleman yields. Gentleman from South Dakota, representative Johnson, you're recognized.

Dusty Johnson (01:44:26):

So under the heading of ways that we can all improve, I want to look at ways in the current legislative regime I don't think provides enough flexibility to states. I'll tell you what I mean. So now when a president declares a federal disaster, in those affected areas, governors can have the flexibility to increase the weight limits on interstates. Makes sense. Makes the delivery of recovery and disaster supplies a lot more efficient. I think we've heard two things from you today, Administrator, with your colloquies, with some of my colleagues. Number one, as you said to Mr. Ezell, recovery is complicated and it can take a long time. We all know that's true. And number two, disaster supplies can get pulled in from a large geographic area.

(01:45:11)
So here I think are the weaknesses in the current legislative regime and you'll tell me where my assumptions are wrong. So first off, recovery can take a long time. Right now, when the president issues this disaster declaration, I think governors are only given the flexibility to increase those weight limits for 120 days. Clearly, recovery can take a lot longer than that. Number two, disaster supplies get pulled from a large geographic area. If you're a governor in a state where the disaster supplies originate, so you're not in the area that's been impacted directly by the disaster, but you've got supplies that can help those folks a couple of states away, you don't have the flexibility to increase the weight limits on the interstates within your state.

(01:45:54)
So the MOVE Act, which is a bipartisan effort in this committee, Mr. Costa, and myself, would provide flexibility in both those areas, by moving the amount of time that governors can have that flexibility from 120 days to 270 days. And then again, large impacted area allows governors to waive those weight limits if they're in an area where the supplies originate. So Madam Administrator, the MOVE Act, does that sound like that would increase the efficiency and the effectiveness of disaster response?

Administrator Criswell (01:46:27):

Congressman, I know that, as I've worked many disasters across the United States, we are often reaching out to the Department of Transportation to help waive some of the limitations to move supplies across. And so I think anything that makes it easier to move resources in support of immediate response efforts would be welcomed.

Dusty Johnson (01:46:45):

Anything else you can think of in the transportation, logistics, supply chain space that would make it easier for us to get supplies to the people who need them?

Administrator Criswell (01:46:54):

Congressman, I think the biggest thing that we have and the biggest resource we have is the Emergency Management Assistance Compact, which allows governors to request resources from other states, which then, if a Federal Disaster declaration is declared, those costs are all reimbursed through the disaster declaration. Those types of resources and tools to be able to share resources across states are the things that actually make a big difference in the speed and the delivery of governors being able to support their communities that were impacted.

Dusty Johnson (01:47:24):

Yeah, I do think those aspects as well as passage of the MOVE Act would help with recovery efforts. We talked a little bit about this terrible employee, this crew leader that you had, ma'am. Obviously you've weathered a lot of questions about that. I think you've been upfront that this was a bad employee who was terminated from her job. Is there a culture problem within FEMA? Is this a one-off or are there other employees who would, as Mr. Stauber said, would be interested in weaponizing government against citizens?

Administrator Criswell (01:47:58):

The actions of this employee are unacceptable and it is not indicative of the culture of FEMA and I do not believe that there is a widespread cultural problem. I have directed ongoing investigations working with the IG, working with the Office of the Special Counsel, and if we find any other acts of similar behavior, we will take appropriate disciplinary measures.

Dusty Johnson (01:48:22):

So what should Congress, what should this committee look for? We want to take you at your word. We want to believe that we don't have a culture problem within FEMA. What should we be looking for over the course of the next three months to validate your assertions?

Administrator Criswell (01:48:39):

I think that you should look at the results that we come out with from ongoing investigations and the amount of assistance that we continue to provide in communities and the support during their recovery process. We will be with them throughout their recovery, helping them rebuild and rebuild in a way that's going to make them more resilient against future disasters.

Dusty Johnson (01:48:59):

Would an investigation from an inspector general or an ombudsman or some other third party help increase the confidence of this committee that your assertions are accurate?

Administrator Criswell (01:49:07):

We are currently in conversations with the IG and I would welcome an inspection from the IG and as I stated to Chairman Perry earlier, I will personally request that investigation from the IG.

Dusty Johnson (01:49:18):

Very good, thank you. I yield back.

Chairman Perry (01:49:21):

Chair thanks the gentleman. Chair now recognizes Representative Webster from Florida.

Daniel Webster (01:49:29):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This question is on behalf of Lake County, one of the four counties I represent in Florida. It's critical for communities to know what is and what is not eligible for FEMA reimbursement so they can plan, they can plan accordingly for a natural disaster. Counties may have in place sort of a debris removal contract in advance of the disaster so the debris removal can move quickly and follow up from the storm. However, depending on the circumstances, actual costs may exceed the contract.

(01:50:19)
Unfortunately, my office has not been able to get a clear answer from FEMA on whether or not the increase is reimbursable. And I just ask the administrator, are those costs reimbursable? Are the communities only reimbursed at the amount that they had in a preexisting contract?

Administrator Criswell (01:50:45):

Congressman, I would need to understand the specifics of what they're asking for and I'm happy to follow up with you and your team on that case to see what's eligible and not eligible.

Daniel Webster (01:50:53):

I think that what they're asking is, okay, there's this contract, they have it and they perform that although the contract was exceeded. And so by exceeding it, do they only get what they had a contract for reimbursed or can the excess also be reimbursed?

Administrator Criswell (01:51:17):

On the basis of what you're saying, that doesn't sound like a reasonable approach from FEMA. We would be reimbursing all eligible costs and if they had to incur additional costs beyond their contract, that should, from what you're saying, fall under the eligible circumstances. But I would, again, have to see that specific case.

Daniel Webster (01:51:34):

Thank you very much. Yield back.

Chairman Perry (01:51:40):

Chair thanks the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New York, Representative D'Esposito.

Anthony D'Esposito (01:51:45):

Well thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning, Administrator. How are you? First, I want to start off with, I'm sure as you've heard time and time again from colleagues on this committee, it's absolutely reprehensible to withhold aid and support based on political affiliation. As you know, in addition to being on this committee, I serve as the subcommittee chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee's Emergency Management and Technology Subcommittee that is also looking into this matter.

(01:52:12)
Additionally, I was the chief of the Island Park Fire Department when Hurricane Sandy brought destruction and devastation to Long Island. And I will tell you that no political affiliation, no campaign sign, nothing would've prevented me and those who served under me from helping our neighbors. So I'm sure you can understand why reports of FEMA employees skipping homes based on political affiliation and support of President-elect Donald Trump is both shocking and absolutely disturbing. First off, what has FEMA done or planning to do to ensure the homes that were passed over because of President Trump's signs are made whole?

Administrator Criswell (01:52:51):

Congressman, I appreciate your ongoing support of FEMA and I share your concerns over the actions of this employee. We have, first, terminated that employee to ensure that we can continue to do the good work to support the American people. We have also sent in an additional team to go to those 20 homes that we have identified as having been skipped over to ensure that they have had an opportunity to register for assistance. We've provided refresher training to all of our staff in the field to remind them about the importance of serving all people, meeting them where they are, and ensuring that anyone who has been impacted has an opportunity to apply for assistance.

Anthony D'Esposito (01:53:31):

Okay. So the employee at the center of this who, as you said, was terminated, which I appreciate that and I think that that was the correct course of action, but she claims that her instructions were part of a, quote, institutional FEMA policy of avoiding potentially hostile homes. So I think you briefly touched on it, but what are your plans to change or clarify this, what could be a very policy but nonetheless one that people in FEMA feel that exists, to make sure that it never happens again?

Administrator Criswell (01:54:00):

There is nowhere in any FEMA policy, any training material or information that would direct any of our staff to avoid a home because of a political sign in their yard. We do provide training to our staff about aggressive behavior and how they can make sure that they can feel safe. And as we have conducted this refresher training, we have reminded them that this is reactive behavior when somebody is approaching you, not proactive to discriminate against somebody.

Anthony D'Esposito (01:54:28):

Okay, thank you. And now I'm going to bring it a little closer to home. So earlier this year on Long Island, there was a one in a thousand-year rain event which produced nearly 10 inches of rain leading to widespread flash flooding that caused road closures, travel disruptions, and significant damage to public and private property. Following the rain event, New York state applied for both public and individual assistance from FEMA. The state was successful in receiving a declaration for public assistance. However, individual assistance was just denied last week. And I know that this is an issue both my colleagues from Long Island, Mr. LaLota and Mr. Garbarino are working on.

(01:55:00)
But FEMA's Public Assistance Program has defined the threshold of $37.5 million in damages for eligibility to New York State. However, according to the division of Homeland Security and Emergency Services in New York State, determining eligibility for individual assistance is more complex and cannot be assessed as straightforwardly as the public assistance threshold. So first, is there a comparable threshold or specific dollar amount for uninsured damages that must be met for a disaster to qualify for individual assistance?

Administrator Criswell (01:55:31):

Our individual assistance program does not use a very clear cut guideline like that because we understand that the community impact could also be a consideration and if a community has had such significant trauma to it, we wouldn't want an arbitrary line, an arbitrary number to prevent them from getting assistance. So we have flexibility within our authorities to understand the impact of a community, but also what the availability and the capacity is of the state or the local jurisdiction to support them.

Anthony D'Esposito (01:56:00):

So we're going to be talking about this in the Homeland Subcommittee, but if you wouldn't mind, if you could have you and your staff, if you would be willing to provide more detailed information on how those thresholds for individual assistance are determined. I understand that it's sort of a cloudy area, but that would be able to help us on Long Island assist our neighbors and give them concrete answers as to what they're dealing with. I know that, again, Mr. LaLota and Mr. Garbarino are both dealing with a lot of phone calls, a lot of concerns, people that really don't know where to turn to next. And as we know, these storms were devastating, unexpected, which sometimes makes them even more devastating and we just want to give them answers. So if you could provide a little bit further detailed information, we'd all appreciate it.

Administrator Criswell (01:56:45):

We'd be happy to do that.

Anthony D'Esposito (01:56:45):

Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Chairman Perry (01:56:47):

Chairman thanks the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes Representative Yakym.

Rudy Yakym (01:56:51):

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and thank you for being here, Administrator Criswell. The hardworking men and women at FEMA have an important role to play in our communities, helping lift up their fellow Americans when they've been knocked down by a disaster. But recent months have exposed a capabilities gap and a trust gap, and that trust gap is no act of God. And I want to better understand this recent scandal in which houses in Florida were skipped by FEMA canvassers because of Trump signs in their front yard.

(01:57:23)
You've referenced an investigation that is currently underway. There have been concerns expressed that FEMA is deleting emails related to the employee's assertion that it was a directive from her supervisors to skip homes displaying signs supporting President Trump. Ms. Criswell, can you commit to us today that all FEMA records, including Teams messages, emails, and text messages have been and will be preserved for this investigation?

Administrator Criswell (01:57:55):

Congressman, all of our records are preserved and I can commit to you that any requests that you make, we will make sure to send them to you.

Rudy Yakym (01:58:02):

Thank you. You've been fairly consistent and insistent that this was one employee who acted alone, but are you able to guarantee that no one at FEMA headquarters gave verbal or written guidance in the wake of Hurricanes Helene and Milton that recommended skipping or that otherwise warned canvassers about interacting with houses with Trump signs in their lawn?

Administrator Criswell (01:58:28):

We are continuing to investigate the circumstances surrounding this, but I have been presented with no evidence at this point that there was anything beyond this one person's direction.

Rudy Yakym (01:58:38):

And what steps will you take because it sounds like you cannot, at this point, guarantee that that has not taken place. What steps are you taking at FEMA headquarters to ensure and guarantee us that no guidance was given from headquarters to skip over houses that have Trump signs in the front yard?

Administrator Criswell (01:58:58):

Again, we want to make sure that all people impacted by these disasters have the assistance that they're eligible for and that they deserve. We are continuing to conduct an investigation. Our Office of Professional Responsibility is currently working alongside the office of the Inspector General and we expect them to fully investigate the circumstances around this to ensure that this was only a single incident.

Rudy Yakym (01:59:21):

And the employee at the center of this scandal hinted that a policy to skip houses with Trump signs may have also been in place in North Carolina as well. Are you able to guarantee that there was not a similar policy in North Carolina?

Administrator Criswell (01:59:32):

Again, I have seen no evidence that shows that this was anything beyond this one person's specific instructions to her team.

Rudy Yakym (01:59:39):

The number one goal under FEMA's strategic plan for 2022 through 2026 is what? What is the number one goal under your strategic plan?

Administrator Criswell (01:59:48):

Equity as a foundation of emergency management.

Rudy Yakym (01:59:50):

And for reference, what was the number one goal under the 2018 through 2022 strategic plan?

Administrator Criswell (01:59:56):

I do not know. That was before my time.

Rudy Yakym (01:59:57):

To build a culture of preparedness. Does skipping houses with Trump signs advance equity, which is your number one strategic goal?

Administrator Criswell (02:00:05):

Equity, as we look at it, is to make sure that we are reducing barriers for anybody that has a need to access our programs. And so we are ensuring that we are taking down barriers so all people impacted by disasters have access to the programs that they need and that they're eligible for.

Rudy Yakym (02:00:24):

And equity according to FEMA's own guidance in the executive order signed by President Biden, executive order number 13985 defines equity as, quote, "The consistent and systematic, fair, just and impartial treatment of all individuals." Do you believe that the individuals with Trump signs in their front yard were treated fairly and impartially?

Administrator Criswell (02:00:45):

They were not, which is why we terminated her.

Rudy Yakym (02:00:47):

Thank you. And I'd like to yield the balance of my time to the Chairman, Mr. Perry.

Chairman Perry (02:00:51):

Oh. Well, the Chair thanks the gentleman. Administrator. You're in support of the supplemental request. You're in support of that, right? And you would kind of agree with the assertion that you don't have the staffing necessary to complete your mission in one form or another?

Administrator Criswell (02:01:08):

That I don't have the staffing?

Chairman Perry (02:01:08):

Staffing. You don't have personnel.

Administrator Criswell (02:01:10):

I have the staffing and personnel to complete our mission.

Chairman Perry (02:01:13):

You do?

Administrator Criswell (02:01:13):

I eed funding to continue to support reimbursing.

Chairman Perry (02:01:16):

You need the funding? Okay. So let me ask you this. You figure out your strategic plan and it seems to me that your strategic plan bumped your core mission of helping people before, during, and after disasters. Can you explain? You sent, I think, is it two people to Azerbaijan? I don't know how far Azerbaijan is, but your organization sent, as I understand, is it more than two people or just two people to the, as it's stated, the Solidarity for a Green World conference of the parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on climate change, COP probably 24 or 25 or whatever the heck it is. Two people? How many?

Administrator Criswell (02:01:59):

COP29? I believe we sent two people.

Chairman Perry (02:02:01):

Two people. Who approves that?

Administrator Criswell (02:02:05):

I do.

Chairman Perry (02:02:06):

You approve that. So can you provide the committee the details on how much that cost, how much their stay was and how that… Look, people here talk about disinformation. One of the biggest portions of disinformation that I consistently see is that disasters are more frequent, they're more devastating. Simply, the data doesn't support any of that. And allegedly, that's all caused by us. And no data supports that either, yet those assertions are made. And one of those assertions is of course about climate change itself. And of course you're sending your staff, which apparently you have enough of, but you don't have enough money but you're paying. So we'd like to know how much all that cost to send them to Azerbaijan. With that, the Chair now recognize the gentleman from New Jersey, Mr. Representative Van Drew.

Jeff Van Drew (02:02:57):

Mr. Chairman, thank you. Administrator, you seem like a really nice person and you have a very nice personality and you seem calm and gentle. So I'm going to apologize in advance because I'm angry and I'm tired of it. I don't only sit on Transportation, I sit on a Judiciary and I've been at hearings for hours where we were told that there wasn't any plans to go into Roman Catholic churches. And I'm digressing, I realize that. And yet we found out there was, and they had to apologize. We were told that nobody was going to school board meetings because people were reflecting their individual opinions. And again, over time, we dug in and found out there was.

(02:03:44)
There is a culture in America that this issue represents and symbolizes. And I'm a plain speaker, I'm a plain talker and I'm very direct. So I'm going to ask you some things. I know you've talked about it, but the reason we keep going back to it, Administrator, it's a really big deal. It's the first amendment that people have the right to express their viewpoint, their feelings, who they want to vote for, what they believe, whether they're liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat, Trump or Harris, who cares? Because guess what? The folks on the other side of the aisle should know if it happened to us, it could happen to them. That's the reality.

(02:04:25)
And I believe that FEMA's blatantly neglected its core mission of providing emergency support to all Americans without prejudice or bias. And I also believe this doesn't happen in a vacuum. And I understand the person who's been fired, she swears that this came from above her. So the first question I'm going to ask you, that this was part of the administration, is she a liar?

Administrator Criswell (02:04:51):

Her allegations, I have not seen any evidence that this is beyond her specific direction, but we are conducting additional investigations to ensure that this is an isolated incident-

Jeff Van Drew (02:05:02):

So the truth is we-

Administrator Criswell (02:05:03):

… and that we will take disciplinary action if there was more than her direction.

Jeff Van Drew (02:05:07):

… The truth is we don't know yet. It's the culture. It's the culture of what's going on. And part of what they said, this individual, they called Trump supporters, and I know your answer's going to be no to this, as quote, vicious dogs, end quote. I want to just say how deep and mean this was. Do you believe that Trump supporters are vicious dogs?

Administrator Criswell (02:05:29):

That was a comment that was not made by me. And I do not believe in that comment. No.

Jeff Van Drew (02:05:35):

Okay. I'm sure you don't. Do political affiliations with the Republican party make someone inherently dangerous because they happen to be a Republican? Yes or no.

Administrator Criswell (02:05:45):

That is not in alignment with our core mission and our values of integrity, compassion, fairness, and respect.

Jeff Van Drew (02:05:52):

I agree and I understand that. But think about this. People, when they are their most vulnerable, most in need, most scared, most worried, in the most trouble probably in their entire lives, hard-working men and women of America looking to a federal agency to protect them, to help them, to take care of them, and they got literally a knife in the heart. I mean that's what this really represented. Those people, how did they feel? They break their back paying the taxes that keep us all going here. So when we finally are supposed to do a job, this is what happens. How heartbreaking is that?

Administrator Criswell (02:06:31):

Congressman? This was unacceptable and it is heartbreaking.

Jeff Van Drew (02:06:34):

I know. And I-

Administrator Criswell (02:06:35):

And I pushed for three and a half years to put people first in everything that we do.

Jeff Van Drew (02:06:39):

… And you know what? And that's what kind of… And again, forgive me, I'm going to editorialize for a minute. We speak of equity, which is different than equality and it's become a political symbol to some degree, whether folks want to admit it or not. We're worried about pronouns, we're worried about illegals, we're worried about everything. And I get it, but how about just worrying about the average man and woman who's working, who lives in America, who's legal, who pays their taxes, who obeys the laws, and finally, finally needs help? Because most of these people never need help. They don't want anything. They get their social security when they retire and that's about it. Just think how they feel.

(02:07:18)
And I'm concerned and I have to tell you, I have personally asked Joe Cuffari, who is the Inspector General in Homeland Security, personally, asked him, sent him a letter, he's a good man, he's an honest broker, to look into this and really dissect this and see what's going on. I think we're going to find it's more than one person. That culture allowed this one person to think it was okay. That culture that we've had, whether it's in the Department of Justice or whether it is here in Homeland Security, other areas, that culture is allowed this to take place. That culture is wrong and it denies the most fundamental values of Americanism. You know, somebody said to me humorously, "Hey," this wasn't humorous. President Trump had a really good result in the state of New Jersey. Didn't quite make it, but it's usually a very, very blue state. The state I'm from is New Jersey because we're having wildfires right now, as you probably know. And people wonder, are we going to be punished because it was so supportive of President Trump? I would hope not. Because to be honest with you, I do my job. I was a dentist in my other life and your job is kind of like that. We have to take care of people, not in the political end, but in the governmental end, regardless of who they are, what they believe, what they feel, what they've said. That is our responsibility and job. This is so unbelievably, fundamentally wrong.

(02:08:44)
And I'm not showboating here as a politician, I swear to God this really bothers me. It really bothers Americans. It's a grievous mistake. It's awful that it happened and it has to be fixed. I wanted to see if there's any other questions. Hold on for a second. That should completely-

Chairman Perry (02:09:02):

The gentleman's time has expired.

Jeff Van Drew (02:09:03):

… Oh, my time is up. Well, there is no more questions, right Chairman? Chairman, thank you for making me aware of that. I yield back.

Chairman Perry (02:09:09):

The gentleman yields. He might seek time from the next representative if he has any left. The next representative, Representative Bean from Florida, is recognized.

Aaron Bean (02:09:17):

Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Very good morning to you. Good morning TNI Committee and good morning, Administrator. Welcome. Let's cut through the disinformation that's been talked about. So let's play a game called true or false. I'll say a statement. You say true or false, Madam Administrator. After Helene, it was widely reported that a FEMA supervisor told aid workers to avoid homes advertising Trump. Is that true or false?

Administrator Criswell (02:09:43):

A single employee directed her team to not go to homes with Trump signs.

Aaron Bean (02:09:48):

I'm going to put you down for a true then. Is that correct? True.

Administrator Criswell (02:09:51):

A single employee.

Aaron Bean (02:09:52):

I'm putting you down for a true. Here's the next one. FEMA is supposed to be nonpartisan. FEMA is supposed to be like the police or fire department. When they come, they're going to deliver aid. They don't care about your race, political affiliations or things. They're supposed to just get the job done. Is that true or false, Madam Administrator?

Administrator Criswell (02:10:12):

True. FEMA is a nonpartisan agency.

Aaron Bean (02:10:14):

Another true. Putting you down for a true. According to a an email to committee staff, that person responsible was fired from FEMA. Is that true or false, Madam Administrator?

Administrator Criswell (02:10:29):

That individual was terminated at my direction.

Aaron Bean (02:10:32):

I'm going to put you down as a true? How do you know, though, it's only one person. How do we know?

Administrator Criswell (02:10:40):

This is why I have ongoing investigations and we will be working with the IG to establish that it was just a single incident.

Aaron Bean (02:10:46):

You are working with the IG. That is fantastic. The Daily Wire has obtained screenshots of multiple entries in the system. That said, "Trump sign, no contract per leadership." So that could be evidence. At least it's a trail to begin your investigation. Would you say that's true? That's a good lead. Is that a good lead?

Administrator Criswell (02:11:09):

Those were the staff that the individual in question directed not to go to Trump homes.

Aaron Bean (02:11:16):

I'm going to put you down for another true. So here is the question. Do you understand why Americans lack confidence in FEMA leadership? You understand that.

Administrator Criswell (02:11:27):

Trust is the most important thing that we can have in government.

Aaron Bean (02:11:32):

Again, you would say yes.

Administrator Criswell (02:11:32):

And to have one individual-

Aaron Bean (02:11:34):

Can I put you down as a yes that you do understand why so many people are upset?

Administrator Criswell (02:11:39):

… It is unacceptable why this one person made this direction-

Aaron Bean (02:11:43):

I'm going to put you down for a yes.

Administrator Criswell (02:11:44):

… and I can understand why they are upset.

Aaron Bean (02:11:46):

Yes is so much easier to say. Yes, I understand it. You understand why people are mad? It's not a gotcha question.

Administrator Criswell (02:11:56):

No, I said that. I said yes.

Aaron Bean (02:11:56):

I'm just saying you understand.

Administrator Criswell (02:11:57):

I understand why they actions of this one individual can be so hurtful.

Aaron Bean (02:12:03):

Very good. And I'm going to congratulate you on saying we might need some help from the Inspector General because Americans just need trust in their fire department, their police department, and in FEMA. So what is the plan to restore Americans' trust in FEMA? What's the plan?

Administrator Criswell (02:12:24):

We are going to continue with our absolutely committed 22,000 plus employees to assist in the recovery efforts across these disasters and the over 100 other open disasters across the United States, helping them rebuild and restore their lives to get back to some sense of normalcy.

Aaron Bean (02:12:45):

Thank you, Administrator. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Chairman Perry (02:12:49):

The gentleman yields. Are there further questions from any members of the subcommittee who have not yet been recognized? Seeing none, that concludes our hearing for today. I'd like to, and I'm going to thank each of the witnesses, Administrator. It's been tough, but we do appreciate you being here. I know it's not always fun or pleasant, but we're very appreciative that you took the time to come and hear our questions and provide your answers. So with that, this subcommittee stands adjourned.