Michigan AG News Conference Transcript on Charges in Flint Water Crisis

Dana Nessel: (00:09) Okay. Good morning. My name is Dana Nessel. I'm Attorney General of the state of Michigan, and I'm here today to introduce my Solicitor General Fadwa Hammoud and Wayne County Prosecutor, Kim Worthy, who have an important announcement today to make regarding the Flint water investigation. Now, I took no part in that investigation, but thought it was important for me to be here today to thank them for their service and to review for the public what my role and my office has played in the various matters we've been charged with in terms of handling the Flint water crisis. Now, the Attorney General has a unique and multifaceted job in the state of Michigan. By law, I am Michigan's chief law enforcement officer, able to prosecute crimes under state law in each of Michigan's 83 counties. I am the attorney for our state government, charged by law with providing legal representation to state governmental bodies and officials in the performance of their duties. Dana Nessel: (01:21) But last, and certainly not least, I am your attorney. I am the people's attorney. And I'm able to bring lawsuits on behalf of the people of this state, whenever their interests are in jeopardy. Now, my department handles more than 35,000 cases a year, and in most of these instances, I can perform these roles simultaneously and seamlessly, but on rare occasions, the roles that I am entrusted to play can sometimes create potential conflicts with other roles, or at least can give the appearance of such conflicts. So because of this, our Supreme Court has recognized a special procedure that allows my office to continue to perform its legal duties even when faced with a perceived or actual conflict of interest. That procedure is our office's conflict wall process. [inaudible 00:02:21] are screened off from each other and operate entirely independently of one another, as if they were attorneys working in separate law firms. Now this process allows us to fully comply with our ethical obligations as attorneys, while still allowing us to fully perform our duties and responsibilities under state law. Dana Nessel: (02:46) When I took office on January 1st of 2019 and took over some of the most significant civil cases and criminal investigations in the history of our state, none were more consequential than the Flint water crisis. The crisis resulted in more than a hundred civil lawsuits against state agencies and employees that my department was defending, along with a critical [inaudible 00:03:14] that the department initiated to determine who, if anyone, should be charged as a result of the crisis. Because a conflict wall had been erected, separating the criminal and civil teams, and I was presented with the most difficult decision in my tenure as Attorney General, as to which side of the wall I would work with. Dana Nessel: (03:36) Well, I chose to work on the side of civil litigation and not the criminal investigation, because I was committed to trying to resolve those lawsuits as quickly as possible, and in a manner that was in the best interests of the people of our state. As for the department's criminal investigation, I [inaudible 00:03:57] my commitment to ensuring that a fair, just and complete investigation occurred by appointing the two best prosecutors I know to oversee that work, my Solicitor General, Fadwa Hammoud, and Wayne County Prosecutor, Kim Worthy. Fadwa and Kim's commitment to pursuing justice for victims is reflected rare prosecutors. And in my opinion, their reputations are unmatched in this state. Two years ago, I stood at a press conference to announce that they would be taking over the criminal investigation of the Flint water crisis. And by placing one of the department's most important criminal investigations under their full and complete control, I placed my trust and the city of Flint's trust in their very capable hands. Dana Nessel: (04:52) Well today we have come full circle, as I stand here in my department's new Flint office to hear the results of their investigation, along with the rest of you. Now regardless of the outcome, I wanted to take this opportunity to thank Fadwa and to thank Kim and their incredible team of prosecutors and investigators. They took on what is the largest criminal investigation in the history of the state of Michigan without hesitation. And so I wanted to make sure that I had the opportunity to thank them personally and publicly today. With that, I will now turn this over to Kim Worthy to begin their announcement. Kim Worthy: (05:50) Thank you very much, Attorney Dana Nessel, and for placing your trust in Fadwa, myself and this entire team of veteran prosecutors and seasoned investigators. Our work on this case begins with the understanding that the impact of the Flint water crisis cases and what happened in Flint will span generations and probably well beyond the way others will live our lives. This case has nothing whatsoever to do with partisanship. It has to do with human decency, resurrecting the complete abandonment of the people of Flint, and finally, finally holding people accountable for their alleged unspeakable atrocities that occurred in Flint all these years ago. Pure and simple, this case is about justice, truth, accountability, poisoned children, lost lives, still not whole, and simply giving a damn about all of humanity. Kim Worthy: (06:52) This investigation was carried out by career prosecutors and public servants who know how to conduct a criminal investigation, follow the evidence without any preconceived notion whatsoever, and use all the necessary and available investigative tools to law enforcement. Through the course of this investigation, we reviewed literally millions and millions of documents and several hundred electronic devices, executed dozens of search warrants and worked countless hours, even in the midst of the COVID 19 pandemic. From the start, this and all of the resources that I just spoke about that could give the citizens of Flint a [inaudible 00:07:35] that they deserved. Kim Worthy: (07:36) One of these resources included in enlisting a group of world renowned infectious disease experts to study the deaths in this case and to study the deaths in Flint that were potentially related to Legionella. It is critical to this team that they [inaudible 00:07:54] reviewed by unbiased, highly qualified professionals. These experts individually reviewed each case and made an independent determination as to each and every cause of death. The panel then convened to review and adjudicate their conclusions. In terms of the massive electronic data in this case that was compiled and reviewed, this is one of the largest criminal investigations currently underway in the world. Kim Worthy: (08:21) In January of 2020 last year, a team filed a grand jury petition with the Chief Judge of the seventh circuit court for Genesee County. That petition was granted, and the honorable Judge David Newblatt was appointed by the Chief Judge to act as a one man grand juror to investigate these crimes related to the Flint water crisis. The grand jury issued indictments after listening to and evaluating all of the evidence presented. A grand jury provides a broad range of investigative tools. The size and scope of this investigation required the use of all investigative tools available. The greatest benefit to our use of the grand jury was that it clearly provided the ability to conduct this investigation expeditiously and efficiently, and to use the public resources in the most efficient way possible. Kim Worthy: (09:17) But we were also bound by the statutory requirements, the statutory secrecy provisions of the grand jury statutes, in particular, Michigan compiled laws 767.3, 767. 4, and 767.18. We could not, and I feel [inaudible 00:09:35] about the way what they will say or the evidence that was put to the grand jury. I mention these secrecy and statutory provisions only because it was the day after the defendants surrendered themselves and arranged process, and then they were arraigned, we were able to announce these indictments contained. Had we disclosed this information from the grand jury in violation of these secrecy provisions that I've outlined, it would not only have perhaps jeopardized our investigation, but it would have been a crime. Kim Worthy: (10:03) It would not only have perhaps jeopardized our investigation, but it would have been a crime, so today was the first day we were able to present this material. Therefore any statement or suggestion that the Attorney General's Office wrongfully withheld information is disingenuous and inconsistent with the law that I've outlined for you. Kim Worthy: (10:18) The prosecution team will continue to be motivated solely by the evidence and nothing else, and will vigorously pursue justice in this case for the citizens of Flint. With that, I'd like to turn it over to Solicitor General Fadwa Hammoud to discuss the specific crimes, defendants, and indictments. Fadwa Hammoud: (10:49) Thank you Attorney General Nessel for entrusting Prosecutor Worthy and I with leading this investigation, and thank you Prosecutor Worthy for your partnership, and our team, including Special Assistant Attorney General Molly Kettler, who is also here with us today. Fadwa Hammoud: (11:07) Let me start by saying the Flint water crisis is not some relic of the past. At this very moment, the people of Flint continue to suffer from the categorical failure of public officials at all levels of government who trampled upon their trust and evaded accountability for far too long. Fadwa Hammoud: (11:34) Government power is not granted as a blank check. It is borrowed by those who swear an oath to faithfully discharge their duties and service of the people. That is why we have specific laws governing the conduct of public officials because a seat in government comes with extraordinary powers and equally extraordinary responsibilities. When an entire city is victimized by the negligence and indifference of those in power, it deserves an uncompromising investigation that holds to account anyone who is criminally culpable. That is what all citizens in this state are entitled to regardless of their zip code. Fadwa Hammoud: (12:27) And that is what we did. Our approach was simple, where we believe the evidence would prove a criminal charge, we sought and obtained indictments for those crimes. Let me be clear, there are no velvet ropes in our criminal justice system. Nobody, no matter how powerful or well-connected, is above accountability when they commit a crime. And just as no one in this case was unfairly targeted, no one was given any special passes or privileges. Fadwa Hammoud: (13:08) Finally, we may never know all the names of those who had their lives and livelihoods destroyed by this man-made crisis. And although the criminal justice system alone cannot remedy all the suffering that every person endured, we took our part seriously, and we hope others will do the same to ensure that this never ever happens again. Fadwa Hammoud: (13:38) I would now like to discuss the indictments. It is important to remind everyone that a criminal charge is merely an allegation and a defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty. Further, I will provide a summary of the indictments. While I will provide that summary, I am not able to comment on the evidence that supports these indictments. This is because MCL 767.4A prohibits us from sharing any testimony, evidence, or information used in connection with the grand jury inquiry. The indictments are as follows. Fadwa Hammoud: (14:20) Nicholas Lyon, former director of MDHHS is charged with nine counts of involuntary manslaughter, for each at 15 year felony, and one count of willful neglect of duty, a one-year misdemeanor, for his failures and grossly negligent performance of his legal duties while director of MDHHS to protect the health of the citizens of Michigan in accordance with the public health code. Fadwa Hammoud: (14:48) Eden Wells, former chief medical executive, is charged with nine counts of involuntary manslaughter, each a 15 year felony, and one count of willful neglect of duty, a one-year misdemeanor, for her failures and grossly negligent performance of her legal duties while director of MDHHS to protect the citizens of Michigan in accordance with the public health code. In addition, she is charged with two separate counts of misconduct in office, each a five-year felony for two separate incidences of preventing or attempting to prevent the distribution of public health information about Legionnaires' disease in Genesee County. Fadwa Hammoud: (15:31) Nancy Peeler, former manager of the Early Childhood Health Section at MDHHS, is charged with two counts of misconduct in office, each a five-year felony, for concealing and later misrepresenting data related to elevated blood lead levels of children in the city of Flint, and one count of willful neglect of duty, a one-year misdemeanor, for her failure to act upon information of those elevated blood lead levels. Fadwa Hammoud: (16:04) Gerald Ambrose, former finance director and state=appointed emergency manager of the city of Flint, is charged with four counts of misconduct in office, a five-year felony, for acts related to the city of Flint's finances as well as Flint's water supply source. Fadwa Hammoud: (16:22) Darnell Earley, former state-appointed emergency manager for the city of Flint, is charged with three counts of misconduct in office, each a five-year felony, four acts related to the city of Flint's finances as well as misinformation about the quality and safety of the water of the Flint water supply. Fadwa Hammoud: (16:42) Howard Croft, former director of the Department of Public Works for the city of Flint, is charged with two counts of willful neglect of duty, each a one-year misdemeanor, for willfully neglecting his duty to ensure the safety and quality of the Flint water supply. Fadwa Hammoud: (16:59) Richard Snyder, former governor of the state of Michigan, is charged with two counts of willful neglect of duty, each a one year misdemeanor, for willfully neglecting his mandatory legal duties under the Michigan constitution and the Emergency Management Act, thereby failing to protect the health and safety of Flint's residents. Fadwa Hammoud: (17:22) Jarrod Agen, former director of communications and chief of staff of the Executive Office of Governor Snyder, is charged with one count of perjury, a 15-year felony, for giving false statements under oath. Fadwa Hammoud: (17:39) Richard Baird, former senior advisor and transformation manager in the Executive Office of Governor Snyder, is charged with one count of misconduct in office, a five-year felony, by improperly using state resources and personnel, one count of perjury, a 15-year felony, for giving false statements under oath, one count of obstruction of justice, a five-year felony, for attempting to interfere or influence ongoing legal proceedings related to the Flint water crisis, and one count of extortion, a 20-year felony, for threatening a state appointed research team during their investigation into the source of the Legionnaires' disease outbreak in Genesee County. All defendants turned themselves in to the Genesee County Jail. They have been processed and have been arraigned on the charges. The arraignments were handled by Assistant Attorney General Bryant Osikowicz. Richard Snyder and Howard Croft were arraigned in 67th District Court by Judge Christopher Odette, and their next court date is January 19th before Judge Crawford. The remainder of the defendants were arraigned in the Seventh Circuit Court by Judge Elizabeth Kelly, and their next court date is February 18th at 3:00 PM, and no judge has been assigned at this time. Fadwa Hammoud: (19:10) I'd like to take this moment to acknowledge the work and assistance of Judge Newblatt and his staff, the Seventh Circuit Court in Genesee County, as well as the Genesee County Sheriff in accommodating our prosecution team during this grand jury proceeding, especially during this pandemic, and the ensuing processing and arraignment of the defendants. I want to personally thank Genesee County Sheriff Chris Swanson for working with our chief investigator and investigative team to ensure defendants were processed in an efficient manner. Fadwa Hammoud: (19:41) Like any criminal case, as it proceeds through the court system, new evidence may come to light or new witnesses may come forward. So while our focus now is on prosecuting these cases, we won't neglect any need for further investigation. Let me end by thanking the people of Flint for their- Fadwa Hammoud: (20:03) ... let me end by thanking the people of Flint for their patience. And before we take questions, let me also thank the media for continuing to cover the Flint water crisis and for respecting our legal limitations throughout this process. Thank you. Speaker 2: (20:21) Thank you, Solicitor General. We will begin with questions. The first question will be from Jordyn Hermani at Gongwer. Jordyn Hermani: (20:35) Hi, [inaudible 00:20:35]. Can you hear me? Speaker 2: (20:35) Can you hear her? Fadwa Hammoud: (20:35) I can hear her. Speaker 2: (20:35) Yes. Jordyn Hermani: (20:40) Okay. Hi. Thank you for taking my question. On a general note, how is what Rick Snyder did during his time in office in the Flint water crisis different than any other time a governor made a wrong call and people got hurt? I know you can't discuss specifics, but I was wondering if you could elaborate on the willful neglect charge. Fadwa Hammoud: (21:01) What I can say... I mean, obviously, you've already hear us state the law and prosecutor Worthy stated the law. We can't comment on the specific or the evidence or testimony taken in this case. But what I can tell you is, based on the evidence, we charged because we believe that his willful neglect of duty amounted to a crime. Speaker 2: (21:23) Thank you. Next is Jonathan Oosting from Bridge. Jonathan Oosting: (21:31) Yeah. Thank you for taking my question. Some of the arguments raised by allies of Nick Lyon and the Governor as well have suggested... they have a chilling effect on people serving in state government who need to make decisions on the fly. I'm wondering if you can comment on those sort of concerns from those people. Kym Worthy: (21:59) Yes. That question was kind of addressed. But we've had how many governors for the state of Michigan? And this is the first one charged with two misdemeanors. This goes far beyond leading a large organization and someone in the organization makes a mistake or failure to supervise. As the evidence comes out, it will be plain for everybody to see why, in fact, charges were absolutely necessary in this case. So, it goes beyond just failing to supervise or someone making a mistake on your staff. Far beyond. Speaker 2: (22:27) Thank you, Prosecutor Worthy. Next is Christiana Ford from WILX. Christian? Unmute yourself. If not, we'll move on the next one. Christiana Ford: (22:44) Hi. I have two audio channels playing [inaudible 00:22:49]. My question is, what evidence can you give right now as far as these defendants saying that they're unwarranted? I know you can't [inaudible 00:22:59] into detail. Speaker 2: (23:01) She said, "What evidence can you explain or provide regarding the defendants saying that this is unwarranted?" Kym Worthy: (23:09) We can't provide any evidence at all. That's why we've read the statute a couple of times, so that people will understand. Michigan is not generally a grand jury state, and so people may not be familiar. But there are specific statutes that deal with what we can and cannot talk about. And we simply cannot answer your question, I'm sorry, pursuant to statute. Speaker 2: (23:28) Thank you. Next is Eric Lloyd from 9&10 News. Eric, unmute yourself. If not, we will move on to the next. Eric Lloyd: (23:41) I didn't have a question. Speaker 2: (23:43) Oh. Okay. Thanks, Eric. Next is Costanza Maio from CBS. Costanza Maio: (23:51) No question. Speaker 2: (23:52) Paul Egan from the Free Press. Paul Egan: (23:56) Thanks. Are you expecting more charges, or are we kind of up against the statute of limitations in terms of the possibility of any new charges? Fadwa Hammoud: (24:09) Thank you. As we stated, if new evidence were to come to light... I mean, this is an ongoing investigation. And if there is evidence that would prove that a crime was committed, we will surely go where the evidence will lead. Speaker 2: (24:30) Thank you. Next is Stephanie Parkinson from WEYI. Stephanie? Okay. Jim Kiertzner from WXYZ. Jim Kiertzner: (24:47) Thank you for taking my question. I have kind of a multi-part question. Why did you choose to go to a grand jury rather than just issue these charges through the office of Attorney General? I know you can't discuss certain specifics of the grand jury process. But was a charge of involuntary manslaughter considered for Governor Snyder? Some people have already said they're disappointed that he has not been charged with a felony, while some of his aides have been. And the last part of my question, how long will the people of Flint in the state of Michigan have to wait for justice? What's a timeframe on all of these trials going through and getting a resolution one way or the other? Kym Worthy: (25:40) We felt that a grand jury was the most expeditious and efficient way to proceed, for many reasons that we won't go into today. It will become clear as this unfolds. I can't put on a timestamp on how long this would all take. I know that the judges here in this county are committed to doing this as expeditiously and efficiently as they can. Of course, we all know that there's a pandemic, and that has chilled a lot of the trial work that's been going on all over the state. So, that's really an impossible question to answer because of the pandemic. Kym Worthy: (26:11) The third part of your question, I don't remember what it was. Jim Kiertzner: (26:15) Was the charge of involuntary manslaughter on the table for the Governor? Kym Worthy: (26:19) Again, that would be commenting on what went on during the grand jury proceedings. Speaker 2: (26:25) Thank you, Prosecutor Worthy. And thanks, Jim. Fadwa Hammoud: (26:28) [crosstalk 00:26:28]? I just want to comment to say one thing. Speaker 2: (26:29) Oh. My apologies. Solicitor General would like to respond as well. Fadwa Hammoud: (26:32) I want to comment on the grand jury proceeding, as well, to touch on what Prosecutor Worthy said. What this team did is make sure that we used every investigative tool at our disposal to investigate this case, because the people of Flint deserved that we treat this investigation as the most important investigation in the world. And that's how we proceeded. Grand jury is an investigative tool, and it's a process, as many of you know. The federal government uses it all the time. So, this is not some uncommon process that is used in a criminal justice system. But it's also an investigative tool, and we believe that the citizens of Flint deserved for us to use every single investigate tool at our disposal. Speaker 2: (27:22) Thank you. Stephanie Parkinson, I hear that you fixed your issues, from WEYI. Stephanie, are you there? All right. Dave Eggert from AP. Dave Eggert: (27:45) Hi. Thanks for taking the call. I wanted to followup on something from earlier. I think it maybe was the first or second question, and this is along the same lines. Can you address critics that, essentially, say the Governor and other top members of his team made bad policy decisions but did not commit crimes? Why charge them with crimes? Does this cause any concerns for future governors? [inaudible 00:28:15] in the midst of a pandemic. I know there have been deaths, and some have blamed policy decisions, have pointed a finger at the Whitmer administration, for instance. Fadwa Hammoud: (28:28) Thank you. And I think that Prosecutor Worthy addressed this question. Listen, we are investigating crimes. Our approach was simple. Where we believed crimes were committed under the law, and the evidence supported, we south indictments and we obtained those indictments on those criminal acts. Public officials are subject to the same laws as everybody else. Again, there are no velvet ropes in our criminal justice system. Speaker 2: (29:02) All right. Next is Hank Winchester or Karen Drew from WDIV. Okay. Next would be Kathy Gray. Okay. Rick Pluta, Michigan Public Radio. Okay. Chad Livengood from Crain's. Chad, go ahead. I see you in the chat. Go ahead with your question. You can unmute. Chad Livengood: (29:51) All right. Sorry about that. Too many windows today. Yes. Solicitor General, in your comments you said that the Flint water crisis was a categorical failure of public officials in all levels of government... Chad Livengood: (30:03) ... with a categorical failure with public officials at all levels of government, why is nobody from the Genesee County Health Department who was perfectly capable of telling the public about a Legionnaires' outbreak over a period of a year or more, why has nobody been charged from that department? And what is nobody within EPA been charged? They too, along with the CDC, where informed of this from the Legionella outbreak and did not make it public either. Fadwa Hammoud: (30:31) Thank you for your question. I know that there are a lot of questions out there that would require us to comment on the evidence presented in the Grand Jury. And even though I can't directly answer your question, I can tell you this. We pursued a full and thorough investigation. And based on that investigation and the evidence that was presented to the Grand Jury, we received indictments on that. But what I can assure everybody, something that Prosecutor Worthy already touched on, we conducted a full and thorough investigation and followed the evidence in this case. Speaker 2: (31:09) Okay. Stephanie Parkinson and then Ann Pierret from ABC12 is following her. Go ahead Ann. Ann Pierret: (31:27) Thank you. One of the big questions here, how much tax payer money has been spent over the last two years on this investigation? And do you find that it is worth it to spend this taxpayer money on two charges against the Governor, the former Governor, that results in him just receiving possibly up to one year in jail or a $1,000 fine? Fadwa Hammoud: (31:54) Let me start by saying that when we started conducting this investigation as to damaging effects on children that will follow them for generations to come, we didn't put a price tag or come in with a certain list of charges, whether they be misdemeanors or felonies and proceed on that basis of what the charge is going to mean, or how much it's going to cost. That's not the way we proceeded with the investigation. We never put a dollar value on this investigation. But this is what we did. We used our resources in a matter that was most efficient to the taxpayers. This Grand Jury process, what people need to understand, there will be no preliminary examinations on the felony charges. Those cases will go directly to Circuit Court. Furthermore, not only did Attorney General Nessel bring this in-house instead of this being outsourced at a private firm. What we did with our resources is something that prosecutor Worthy touched on. And that is we use those resources to also hire experts, world-renowned doctors in infectious disease to help us in investigating the Flint Water crisis and made sure that we used every resource at our disposal to give them the investigation that they deserved. Kym Worthy: (33:26) The other thing that's very important to point out about this, and we've talked about this in the past, it was not an outside lawyer that bill by the hour that did this case. This was unbiased seasoned prosecutors who are on salary and get the same salary, whether they worked 40 hours a week, 80 hours a week and many 90 hours a week. So there was no overtime. This was completely done by salaried, seasoned veteran employees. So again, a very expeditious use of taxpayer dollars. Nobody was billing hours. We got the same salary throughout. Speaker 2: (34:00) Thank you Prosecutor Worthy. We've got time for just a couple more questions. Craig Marger from the Detroit News. Craig, are you there? All right, Tim Skubick from WLNS. Erin Einhorn from NBC News. Okay. Brianna ... I'm sorry. Your last name starts with an O from WNEM. Leonard Fleming, Detroit News. Heather Walker WOOD-TV. Heather Walker: (34:59) Thank you. How confident are you in the evidence that you have against former Governor Snyder that it will result in the conviction? Kym Worthy: (35:09) Just like any other case, we charge cases that we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. We do not charge cases that we cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt. So we're confident in all the charges that we have meted out today. Speaker 2: (35:24) Thank you. Just a couple more questions. Joe Gillan from Freep. Joe Gillian: (35:32) [ inaudible 00:05:35]. Speaker 2: (35:35) I'm sorry? John Hewitt, WWJ Newsradio. Okay. Well we would go back to Jim Curtner for his followup question. And then we will have time for one more question. Jim Kiertzner: (36:02) Thank you. My follow-up question is on the governors, [C 00:36:06] is charged with just two misdemeanors. What's the likelihood there could either be a plea bargain in that case, so we don't get to hear the evidence in court. Would you guys agree to that? Or do you want, since C is the high profile defendant here, do you want his case to play out in court where everybody can see the evidence and understand it for themselves? And since he's only charged with misdemeanors, can he in either a plea bargain or a sentence eventually, since it's only a misdemeanor, have this expunged from his record? Kym Worthy: (36:41) Yeah, Jim, I think you'd know me well enough to know by now that it doesn't matter how high profile you are, how much money you have, what your ethnicity is or any other process, these cases are charged just like any others that are charged out of my office are charged whether we can prove the cases beyond a reasonable doubt. That's it. And again, it's way too early to talk about any other strategies or procedures or anything that's going to happen. This is the first stage. We still have a massive discovery stage that we're going to have. And I'm not going to comment at this time about any potentiallities that may happen in this case down the road. Speaker 2: (37:14) Okay. All right. The last question will be from Stephanie Parkinson. She is asking a publication called the Intercept claims the AG's office has evidence that should bring charges of misconduct in office for former Governor Snyder. Is there any validity to that claim? Fadwa Hammoud: (37:37) Again, like we've stated before. We followed the evidence in this case and asked for indictments on that evidence in court. And other than that, I can't comment on anything else that came out during the Grand Jury testimony. Speaker 2: (37:58) Thank you, Solicitor General. Fadwa Hammoud: (38:00) Thank you. Speaker 2: (38:00) And thank you everyone for tuning in. Have a great day. Fadwa Hammoud: (38:04) Thank you.